Talk:Native American tribes in Virginia

Pre 16th century

There needs to be more info prior to the 16th century.-Ravedave (talk) 02:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I have a few great books I could use to add more information prior to the 16th century. I will add this to the page as soon as I get the chance. Great suggestion.Sarah1607 (talk) 18:14, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

References and Suggested reading

These sections needs correct formats and full citations, not bare urls for online sources. Books need the location, publisher and year of publication for each entry, and citations need page numbers. Also, most Wiki articles use a format of authors' names first, followed by titles and publication informationParkwells (talk) 16:52, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

Suggested changes to get rid of unencyclopedic content

Current version:

The population of Powhatan Indians today is estimated to be about 8,500-9,500, though only about 3,000-3,500 are tribal members; the Monacan Nation's tribal membership is about 2,000. Being a tribal member may demand commitment. Generally, members must pay dues, as well as attend tribal meetings (which are usually monthly in the "home" areas); serve as tribal officers when asked (unpaid); help to put on tribal events; belong to the tribal church if they are able; teach their children their people's history and learn traditional crafts; represent the tribe at the Virginia Council on Indians, the United Indians of Virginia, and/or at other tribes' powwows (unpaid); answer questions they may be asked; speak at engagements for civic or school groups; and live in a good way so as to best represent their tribe and Indian people in general.

Virginia Indians are proud of their heritage and history, and want to tell their side of the story. They are still here. The Pamunkey and the Mattaponi have maintained their reservations from the 17th century treaties. These two tribes continue to make their yearly tribute payment to the Virginia governor, as stipulated by the 1646 and 1677 treaties. Every year around Thanksgiving they hold a ceremony to pay the annual tribute of game, usually a deer, and pottery or a "peace pipe."

Today some Virginia Indians feel like they live in two worlds. During the week they work jobs among the majority culture, and on weekends they are engaged in activities for and with their individual tribes. Their tribal activities may include wearing regalia to represent their people at pow wows, heritage festivals, or tribal homecomings. For such individuals, their lives are about the balance between the Indian world and the non-Indian world.

My proposed changes:

The population of Powhatan Indians today is estimated to be about 8,500-9,500, though only about 3,000-3,500 are tribal members; the Monacan Nation's tribal membership is about 2,000. There are several requirements required to obtain tribal membership. Generally, members must pay dues; attend tribal meetings (which are usually monthly in the "home" areas); volunteer serve as tribal officers when asked; help to put on tribal events; belong to the tribal church (if one exists and they are able); teach their children their people's history and pass on traditional crafts; represent the tribe at the Virginia Council on Indians, the United Indians of Virginia, or at other tribes' powwows; answer questions they may be asked on the trib from outsiders; speak at engagements for civic or school groups; and live in a good way, so as to best represent their tribe and Native Americans in general. Most Indian tribes maintain some traditions from before the time of European settlement, and are keen to pass these traditions on. Although Indians are also highly involved in non-native culture and employment, they regularly engage in activities for their individual tribes, including wearing regalia and attending powwows, heritage festivals, and tribal homecomings. Individuals try to maintain a balance between elements of their traditional culture and their other, non-traditional environments.

The Pamunkey and the Mattaponi have maintained their reservations from the 17th century treaties. These two tribes continue to make their yearly tribute payment to the Virginia governor, as stipulated by the 1646 and 1677 treaties. Every year around Thanksgiving they hold a ceremony to pay the annual tribute of game, usually a deer, and pottery or a "peace pipe."

My problem is that an encylopedia should just be a statement of facts, not trying to be all mystical and tourguidey. "They are still here". C'mon, what is that? It sounds like it comes from a crappy documentary. I'm not racist or bigoted or a white supremacist, I'm just trying to improve things. Thank you. 58.7.94.82 (talk) 06:57, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

The text "Virginia Indians are proud of their heritage and history, and want to tell their side of the story. They are still here." is transparently unencyclopedic and reads like an emotive lede (I though that perhaps it was taken straight from the blurb of the cited book, but it seems not). The last paragraph of the current version has no particular issue, except tone perhaps, it's fine for a encyclopedia to report on cultural/identity issues within a group and that some members of the group "feel like they live in two worlds", the cited source devotes a chapter to this. The two users who have engaged with you here and at ANI have treated you extremely poorly, apologies-- 92.2.82.159 (talk) 21:08, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm in agreement with the two anonymous users here, the current text is completely inappropriate. Claritas § 21:16, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I've mostly implemented the above change. --Nouniquenames 15:45, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Unrecognized tribes

A giant portion of this article was taken up by an unrecognized "tribes" section, but for many of these organizations, the only source provided for them was the Cherokee's "Fraudulent Tribe" list. So, the only citations were ones saying that these are *not* Native American tribes, so by definition should not be included in an article titled "Native American tribes in Virginia." If any of these organizations individually have documented notability and have secondary, published sources supporting their Native claims, then they could be added to the prose for whatever notable and relevant subject they relate to within the article. As a giant list, the entries are not notable or relevant the article. Yuchitown (talk) 00:51, 2 January 2017 (UTC)Yuchitown

These are real living human beings who are trying to practice their heritage and culture. Your elitist pov that they need the u.s. government permission or imprimatur to be considered relevant to the topic is simply that, your pov. How about getting consensus before consigning them to the memory hole in what seems a shamelessly agenda driven and partisan edit??? 208.54.36.230 (talk) 01:00, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

First, it's not appropriate to change words in other people's comments on talk pages. Second, the "unrecognized tribes" section was cut-and-pasted from the List of unrecognized tribes in the United States and does not need to be duplicated here. Almost all of the organizations previously listed on this article are Cherokee Heritage Groups and not Native American tribes. The inclusion of the concept would require citations, but individual entries would have to meet Notability standards of stand alone lists, which requires verifiable, reliable sources—published accounts in secondary sources. Currently, the citation for many of these groups is the "Fraudulent Group List" published by the Cherokee Nation—so a citation saying that they are *not* Native American tribes. An organization identifying itself as Wicocomico is mention but the link redirects to the Wicocomico article, which is mostly about the historic tribe, so I'll add that to the article with citations. Yuchitown (talk) 22:32, 3 January 2017 (UTC)Yuchitown

Okay, integrated Wicocomico into the article's prose and linked unrecognized tribes in Virginia is the "see also" section. Yuchitown (talk) 23:03, 3 January 2017 (UTC)Yuchitown

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Reservations

The article indicates that native Americans were at risk of disappearing because they lacked reservations.

“Because the Native Americans generally lacked reservations and some had intermarried with Europeans and African Americans, many colonists and later European-American residents of Virginia assumed that the Native Americans were disappearing. They did not understand that mixed-race descendants could be brought up as fully culturally Native American.”

This wholly ignores that Native American tribes of the region existed and flourished without European interference. Frankly I don’t know how to explain that this segment is racist but it is. Spskeldon (talk) 06:12, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

@Spskeldon this article is badly sourced. But I'm wondering if you are referring to the last century or? Doug Weller talk 11:23, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: HIST 2010 Early U.S. History

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kennacoop01 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Candicephillips (talk) 01:54, 3 October 2022 (UTC)