Talk:Naval ranks and insignia of Russia

Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation

There is no such rank in russian military as Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation. The highest deck rank is Admiral of the Fleet. See this talk page. --DimaY2K 15:29, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Podpraporshchik/Bootsman

There is no such ran as podpraporschik in russian military, look here: Talk:Russian military ranks#Podpraporshchik/Bootsman. --DimaY2K 16:06, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

There was and there is no "one star" Warrent Officer in Russian/Soviet Navy/Army/Air Force. - Dieter Buchholz from Germany - Ex-officer of Ex-GDR-NAVY - 26th December 2005 - info@schebecke.de

Further "Bootsman" is the Russian pronunciation of "boatswain" which is a naval job description for sailors and it is not a rank or rate designation.Федоров (talk) 23:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Image deletion

On the off-chance that somebody is paying attention here, please note that many of the images used on this page have no source or license info, and are being systematically deleted per policy. If you care at all, go tag all the images correctly (see Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for a list); if nothing else, {{symbol}} seems plausible in lieu of a special tag for symbols of rank. Time is of the essence, the countdown towards image deletions is seven days usually. Stan 07:14, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

If this happens again, the correct tag is {{Military-Insignia}}. Valentinian ^(talk) 21:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Page protection

I was approached by a registered user about the recent edit warring. As neutral to this article, I feel the best course is to protect it against unregistered and anon ip users since apparently one (or several) editors are using multiple anon ip addresses to edit war and bypass the Wikipedia:Three Revert Rule -Husnock 17:18, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Color meaning

I noticed on the officer ranks Captain First Rank and below, there was a colored piping down the middle. Does any one know what this means?--Mtnerd 21:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Various colors indicate military speciality of an officer (line, aviator, medic etc.) just like Army's infantry officers have red stripes, but aviators and paratroopers have blue ones etc. I'm not able to provide the exact legend at this time though. --DmitryKo 06:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe yellow indicates seagoing branches, while red signifies Naval Infantry and light blue indicates Naval Aviation. Naval Infantry and Naval Aviation also use Army ranks rather than naval ranks. I am not sure if medical, engineering, etc also use yellow or if they have their own colorsCfagan1987 (talk) 16:22, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

The color code of the stripe that goes through the Soviet/Russian officer shoulderboards is:

    gold - sea-going line officers
    sky blue - naval aviator officers
    red - naval infantry, naval medical, naval legal
    white - previously used in the Soviet Navy to indicate shore-based engineering officers (no longer used)

- Ranks Captain 3rd Rank, Captain 2ns Rank, and Captain 1st Rank have two parallel colored stripes on shoulderboards - Junior officers have a single stripe

Particular specialties can also be indicated by gold colored metal devices, for example, a cup with entwined snake for medical Федоров (talk) 23:31, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Sleeve insignia for Midshipmen

I can't find any reference to sleeve insignia worn by Midshipmen or enlisted personnel. Provided that the images in question were uploaded by Roitr (talk · contribs · block log), they could as well be bogus... --DmitryKo 06:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation

Where in this article Fleet Admiral of the Russian Federation? This version is erroneous. Marshal of the Russian Federation Marshal of the Russian Federation is the highest rank for All-forces of the Russian Federation, but it is not highest rank only for all armed forces of the Russian Federation. Here http://www.mil.ru/articles/article3665.shtml the rank of Marshal of the Russian Federation is placed only in the ground forces column, but not in two columns. For this rank see http://www.uniforminsignia.net/index.php?p=show&id=123&sid=1498 , http://www.tridentmilitary.com/RUSSIANMILITARIA/russian-rank-chart.html , http://www.luther.ca/~dave7cnv/military/militare.html. It is a theoretical senior-most military rank of the modern Russian Navy. Fleet Admiral of the Russian Federation is not an active military rank in the presents time, and only exists in theory to be appointed if Russia ever became involved in a major war or national emergency. It is written in the military doctrine of the Russian Federation. Therefore we do not see it here: Federal Law "On military duty and military service". Current revision, http://wbase.duma.gov.ru/ntc/vdoc.asp?kl=4488 . In development of this rank has borrowed, as well as it is necessary, service of rear of the Russian Army and committee on heraldry between 1992-1994. Nothing prevents it from being introduced in the future, even at wartime, but in the presents time it simply just does not оfficially exist.

P.S By Presidential Decree of 27 Jan 1997. The rank of "Marshal of the Russian Federation" was eliminated (though those already awarded the rank are allowed to wear the Marshal’s single large star). General and Flag officers’ rank insignia were altered so that generals of the Army and admirals of the Fleet now wear four stars, Colonels-General three stars, Lieutenants-General two stars and Majors-General one star. (Krasnaya Zvezda 29 Jan 97 p 1). http://www.fas.org/irp/world/russia/fbis/Acronyms.html --Duduvak 19:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

The response is at Wikipedia_talk:Long term abuse/Roitr#Duduvak. --DmitryKo 15:17, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

• The cited Law on Defense only lists the rank of Marshal of the Russian Federation

However,

• The entire discussion of a Russian Federation military rank above General of the Army or Admiral of the Fleet is moot since there none have been bestowed since the Russian Federation came into existence in 1991. Those service personnel who had the rank of Marshal after the disintegration of the USSR retained the rank as bestowed in Soviet times and not something new under the Russian Federation.

Федоров (talk) 23:41, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

AFRF

Has the rank of Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation ever existed? Yes or no?

If it hasn't then it shouldn't be listed at all - with or without a statement to that effect. Saying it's 'hypothetical' is not good enough, even if there is official documentation to that effect. What ISN'T hypothetical? 'Grand Pooh-bah of the Russian Federation'? 'Supreme Commander of the Universe ... of the Russian Federation'? It isn't like the USN rank of Fleet Admiral, which DOES exist, though no one presently holds the rank.

The prior existence of AFSU and MRF is indication enough of the possibility of such a rank being called AFRF. But the fact is that Russia has no need of any such rank for the forseeable future. User:Chief of the Naval Stuff

No, it doesn't exist (see Talk:Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federation. The problem is that VFD for this article was carried out but it was decided to keep it, for whatever bizarre reasons, while similarily non-existant Chief Marshal Of The Air Force of the Russian Federation was speedy deleted... --Dmitry 21:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Red or yellow?

For people that are confused: yellow is navy, red is naval infantry, someone should specify that when this is no longer protected

U.S. Rank Equivalents?

I notice that the US equivalent ranks for the various grades of admirals does not correspond with the US equivalents for generals listed on the Russian army and airforce rank pages. If using the army equivalents as the basis, the naval equivalents should line up as:

Russian deck (Navy) ranks	US equivalent
Admiral of the Fleet	Admiral
Admiral	Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral	Rear Admiral (upper half)
Counter Admiral	Rear Admiral (lower half)

The US rank of Fleet Admiral is a wartime rank and should be the equivalent to Marshall of the Russian Federation, which doesn't have a Russian naval equivalent. What are other views on this? Nicholas F 18:47, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with your views. Most contributirs to Wiki discussion pages are from the USA and always compare to their own US Navy rank equivalents.

The fact of the matter is that many European Navies have 4 grades for junior commissioned officers, the extra rank is the Captain Lieutenant or Staff Lieutentant rank. The equivalency grading scale on the Russian navy rank site is clearly wrong and needs to be corrected.

Ensign = Junior Lieutenant (Rus) Lieutenant JG = Lieutenant (Rus) Lieutenant = Senior Lieutenant (Rus) No US Equiv - Captain Lieutenant (Rus)

Similarly with Navy Flag Officer ranks. There are generally 5 ranks Commodore, Rear Admiral, Vice Admiral, Admiral, and Admiral of the Fleet. Most European Navies do not have the Commodore rank which historically has been a temporay rank. In the article the equivalenvy rank has again been misapplied and needs to be corrected.

Commodore or Rear Admiral Lower Half = NO Russian Equivalent Rear Admiral Upper Half = Kontr-Admiral Vice Admiral = Vitse Admiral Admiral = Admiral Fleet Admiral = Admiral of the Fleet No US equiv = Admiral of the Fleet of the Russian Federal (not used)

--Qtslx 03:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

• Disagree. The view in Russia always was that Captain-Lieutenant is equivalent to Lieutenant rank, and that it is the Russian Junior Lieutenant rank that doesn't have any equivalent, as it's actually very inactive rank, awarded only to distinguished warrant officers or as a target for demotion. The only difference with flag ranks is that due to lack of Commodore-level rank in the Russian Navy (and there are talks of introducing it, due to ongoing reorganisation) Fleet Admiral in Russia is a four-star rank, not five-star. So the table goes as follows:

Russian deck (Navy) ranks	US equivalent
Admiral of the Fleet	Fleet Admiral
Admiral	Admiral
Vice Admiral	Vice Admiral
Counter Admiral	Rear Admiral (upper half)
No equivalent	Rear Admiral (lower half)
Captain 1'st Rank	Captain
Captain 2'nd Rank	Commander
Captain 3'rd Rank	Lieutenant Commander
Captain-Lieutenant	Lieutenant
Senior Lieutenant	Lieutenant (JG)
Lieutenant	Ensign
Junior Lieutenant	No equivalent

--Khathi (talk) 08:29, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

• I concur with Khathi. The naval rank of "Junior Lieutenant" was dominantly used in the USSR for those commissioned as reserve officers from the "military faculties" of civilian institutions of higher learning. These officers were intended as a wartime manpower pool and did not proceed to actual active duty. The Soviet/Russia military system dominantly accessed active duty officers only from military officer commissioning schools - not from civilian university equivalents.Федоров (talk) 23:49, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Midshipman?

I would disagree with the Midshipman equivalent of the junior leiutenant rank. A jr-lt in the Russian military is a comissioned officer rank, and cannot be equated to a warrant officer rank of the US military. Besides, in the US, this rank is only reserved for officers in training (cadets).

The difference here is that the Russian Navy, as the Russian military in general has one more officer rank, than the US military, although the jr-lt rank is rarely used. This causes confusion with the stripes. There's clearly a shift from the traditional naval striping pattern, as a Captain should have four stripes, rather than a Commodore (RADM-LH) stripe. As one might notice, the Russian Navy would have wound up with way too many stripes for the highest admiral rank this way, so they gave the admiral of the fleet rank a half stripe to diffirentiate it from tbe admiral rank, ending up with one large and four regular stripes for the highest rank. Pretty interesting.

Anyway. That said, there's still just a an extra junior officer rank for a total of four, rather than three in the US military, that cannot be equated to a warrant officer rank.

Regards,

Alex

red or yellow again

The Red color on the shoulderboards implies that the person bears a non-naval rank. For instance a Major vs. Capt. 3rd Rank. The people with strictly naval ranks would only have yellow or black colors on the shoulder boards. -Alex —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.236.67.40 (talk) 19:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Rank equivalence

Please, do not shift flag ranks down! Russian Army/Navy doesn't have Brigadier/Commodore-level ranks, so this effectively pushes star ranks up one grade. Admiral Of The Fleet thus might have only four stars, but it is in all intents and purposes a five-star rank, with all corrsponding seniority and responsibility. --Khathi (talk) 08:29, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll agree. Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to get your pictures to span OF-6 and OF-5, so I'm forced to "repeat" it. If anyone can fix up the table, thanks...

But then, if one must be serious about it, it is very hard to provide the equivalence of Russian ranks to say an American due to the Russian emphasis on position and the American emphasis on rank. In America if you are suddenly shoved into higher responsibility they'll throw you a temp-rank and in Russia you are just placed into it. That, when added to the West's greater emphasis on seniority requirements for positions, you'll probably have to wind up shifting almost all the Russians ranks to the left about one-third to one-half or a rank, to account for the countless times when a Russian officer is placed into a responsibility that his rank won't have qualified him for, from the Western perpsective.

With naval officers, you can then play a THIRD game, because a Russian officer is (generally) a specialist in his trade, responsible and capable (at least theoretically) of both maintaining his equipment, teaching his men how to do so, as well as managing his division. A Western officer generally only handles the last part and leaves the former two responsibilities to a senior NCO. So you can draw a line from a junior Russian officer (especially those at Captain Lieutenant rank and below) and say he's roughly equivalent to a petty officer or chief petty officer in the West. --Kazuaki Shimazaki (talk) 15:31, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, in Russian Navy maintaining and teaching is actually not an officer's job, but a thing that warrant officers do, and you can argue that they count as NCOs (except that they are treated more like commissioned officers in Russia, not like enlisted men). That's why there was such an uproar when rumors of their abolition appeared: now the officers would have to do all that job too, and there's already a shortage of them. But that's irrelevant, and going back to discussion, it looks for me that we are saying the same thing, but look at it from the different sides. I've tried to describe how the whole system works in the discussion about Army ranks, so I believe that you must check it. --Khathi (talk) 15:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, I was going by accounts such as The Last Sentry and the like, where michman were coming in but the responsibility is still the officer's. It is pleasant to hear that the Russian "sub-officer" cadre has finally strengthened enough they can shoulder over that work. And that makes the whole rumor about dumping it and starting over sound even dumber... --Kazuaki Shimazaki (talk) 07:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

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Duplicated content

Hi,

I've noticed that the Warrant officers and ratings section is duplicated, shouldn't 1.3 be deleted?

Thank you.

VALiKOV (talk) 00:02, 27 June 2019 (UTC)