Talk:Neo kyma

Requested move 25 November 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. per the rationale given by Solidest, and HumanBodyPiloter5's statement that this title is misleading. (non-admin closure) VR _talk 03:07, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

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Greek New Wave → Neo kyma – The original spelling is widely used in English for the genre, so it has to be the main name of the article Solidest (talk) 23:54, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

• The nominator has not asserted relative common name status. This should be discussed rather than just unilaterally moved with a flimsy argument. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:37, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Solidest and BarrelProof: courtesy ping on opened discussion. -2pou (talk) 00:49, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). 2pou (talk) 00:48, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

'Greek New Wave' is unsourced at the moment. The first source is completely on Greek, the second mentions 'neo kyma' spelling only. Google gives 25 200 results for "greek new wave", where half of results are about cinema movement or new wave scene, not about this folk genre. "Neo kyma" gives 38 000 results for me, and the results seem to be entirely music-related. Looks pretty uncontroversial for me. Perhaps the only question here is to use WP:DIACRITICS or not: Neo kyma / Néo kýma. Solidest (talk) 01:28, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

• Support or, failing that, move to "Greek new wave" as per MOS:GENRE. Primergrey (talk) 03:06, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
• Comment - I think most people would expect this title to discuss new wave music from Greece (or otherwise in the Greek language). This article appears to be discussing an earlier movement. HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 21:11, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

  Yes, but not just 'an earlier movement', but instead not related at all to what is known globally as new wave music. This is just a modern instrumental & lyrical take on Greek traditional folk: https://open.spotify.com/album/6mlsNjwq3qSvy3KsOqOxTf. So the current title is also likely to confuse those who expect to see anything about 80s synth music genre here. Solidest (talk) 20:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Neo Kyma

I performed the artcle move as requested at WP:RMTR, but took the liberty of writing 'Kyma' with upper-case K, not lower-case. Let me know if anyone objects. Google results in English capitalize the K. EdJohnston (talk) 04:12, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

I think it should be lower-case, as genres in such cases (translated/transcribed from the original language) are still not proper names in English (MOS:GENRE). It's difficult to find academic sources in prose in English about the genre, but here's one, where the genre is written in lowercase: [1]. Solidest (talk) 05:18, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

The article you are citing puts all the Greek genre names in lower case, so seems unlikely to be a good reference for typical capitalization of those genres in English. The K is upper case even in typical Greek usage. Note el:Νέο Κύμα του ελληνικού τραγουδιού in the Greek Wikipedia. EdJohnston (talk) 14:37, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

> "all the Greek genre names in lower case, so seems unlikely to be a good reference for typical capitalization of those genres in English"

Why so? This is the common and correct practice in the English language to write genre names of any origin in lower case when it's not a proper name (except of German probably, where everything is capitalized). In English, we also write "New Wave" in upper when we refer to arts movements: New Wave, also the same is fair in Greek el:Νέο Κύμα. But when it comes to music genres, it goes in lower case: new wave music. Looking at the search results, in Greek they write the name in capital letters and often in quote marks, it looks like in these cases they refer to a movement as well, rather than the name of a musical genre. While there are some results when it's not capitalized and written without quotes: [2], [3], [4] (it's spelt as νέο κύμα in all lower as it's Nu (letter)). English has its own rules for spelling musical genres - capitalization is guided by being proper names or not (genres are mostly capitalized when it comes to geographical, ethnic groups, times period names), and I believe we should follow English rules as a priority. So I think that in this case, it's correct to refer to the genre as "neo kyma", but "Greek New Wave" when comes to the movement. The Greek article is also called "New Wave of Greek song", so I think this is correct in their context. Solidest (talk) 18:05, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

I have moved the article to Neo kyma since the issue of capitalization doesn't seem important enough to justify a further RM. EdJohnston (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2021 (UTC)