Talk:Netjerkare Siptah
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Has this Pharaoh's Mummy been found?
editIf not, I don't see how people can be so certain Herodotus and Manetho were wrong on the Gender. We know most Egyptian Queen ruled as if they were Men.
But even if we do physical proof this ruler would have been assigned Male at birth.--JaredMithrandir (talk) 10:36, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- His mummy hasn't been found yet (and it's unlikely that such an old mummy could ever be found anyway). For his sex, you can read Ryholt's arguments in his paper "The Late Old Kingdom in the Turin King-list and the Identity of Nitocris". Maybe later writers doubled the story of the later female pharaoh Skemiophris (Sobekneferu), who was placed at the very end of the 12th Dynasty prior to the collapse of the Middle Kingdom, but this is only a speculation of mine. Khruner (talk) 12:43, 8 December 2016 (UTC)
- JaredMithrandir Ryholt's arguments are based on historical sources, for exemple, the Abydos King List, which dates to the New Kingdom hence over 1200 years earlier than both Herodotus and Manetho and is the most complete historical record on the late Old Kingdom / Early FIP makes no mention of Nitocris, having instead a Netjerkare. The Turin canon, another New Kingdom source, has a Neitiqerty Siptah. Ryholt's analysis substantiates the link between all these names based on solid linguistic and philology. As far as I can tell from the commentary on Ryholt's hypothesis, many Egyptologists have either accepted it as very much probable. Also you have to keep in mind that Herodotus credited Nitocris with building the pyramid of Menkaure, which kinds of discredits his discourse. Regarding mummies, no royal mummy of the late 6th and 7/8th Dynasties have been recovered. However, this has more to do with the chaotic politics of the times than with the distance in time. For exemple, the mummy of Neferefre, who lived over 200 years earlier has been recovered, not to mention Djoser's knee to ankle leg and Djer's wrist (c. 3000 BC!) discarded by Emile Brugsch as a piece of garbage as he could only be interested in the jewels still on the wrist.... Iry-Hor (talk) 09:06, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
- There is no proof (at least not yet) for certain but it is considered likely by today's Egyptologists that Nitocris was a corrupted form the praenomen Netjerkare, which was used by this male king Siptah I. 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:2C40:E74:E4:2868 (talk) 16:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
- @2A00:23C7:5882:8201:2C40:E74:E4:2868 And if there was a female queen in this period (which is unlikely), she would be separate from (Netjerkare) Siptah I, who would then likely be her son with Merenre Nemtyemsaf II. Her original (Egyptian) name would be Nitocret (a name recorded in much later Egypt and consistently Hellenised as Nitocris). 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:10B4:5328:FF5F:4B89 (talk) 09:11, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
- There is no proof (at least not yet) for certain but it is considered likely by today's Egyptologists that Nitocris was a corrupted form the praenomen Netjerkare, which was used by this male king Siptah I. 2A00:23C7:5882:8201:2C40:E74:E4:2868 (talk) 16:03, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
- JaredMithrandir Ryholt's arguments are based on historical sources, for exemple, the Abydos King List, which dates to the New Kingdom hence over 1200 years earlier than both Herodotus and Manetho and is the most complete historical record on the late Old Kingdom / Early FIP makes no mention of Nitocris, having instead a Netjerkare. The Turin canon, another New Kingdom source, has a Neitiqerty Siptah. Ryholt's analysis substantiates the link between all these names based on solid linguistic and philology. As far as I can tell from the commentary on Ryholt's hypothesis, many Egyptologists have either accepted it as very much probable. Also you have to keep in mind that Herodotus credited Nitocris with building the pyramid of Menkaure, which kinds of discredits his discourse. Regarding mummies, no royal mummy of the late 6th and 7/8th Dynasties have been recovered. However, this has more to do with the chaotic politics of the times than with the distance in time. For exemple, the mummy of Neferefre, who lived over 200 years earlier has been recovered, not to mention Djoser's knee to ankle leg and Djer's wrist (c. 3000 BC!) discarded by Emile Brugsch as a piece of garbage as he could only be interested in the jewels still on the wrist.... Iry-Hor (talk) 09:06, 9 December 2016 (UTC)