Talk:New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal

Requested move 18 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) JJP...MASTER!_{[talk to] JJP... master?} 18:20, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

---

Andrew Cuomo's response to nursing homes during the COVID-19 pandemic → 2021 New York nursing home scandal – This current title is unwieldy, POV-pushing, and does not capture the full breadth of this incident, which as the article itself notes is tied not just to Cuomo himself but rather to members of his administration, like Melissa Derosa. I initially proposed this title in the currently ongoing deletion discussion and was met with some initial support, so I've started a formal move request. The year is necessary to distinguish this event from the various other nursing home scandals New York has had, including the one of the 1970s that Bernard Bergman was involved in and journalist John L. Hess helped uncover, or the one of the 2010s that Joel Landau was involved in. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 09:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps 2021 New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal would be a better fit. Gets across that the scandal is related to the pandemic, rather than standing on its own. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:40, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support If there are any other name suggestions, they should be of similar length and probably mention Andrew Cuomo's name in them (since that makes the title messy). Prins van Oranje 17:10, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support, and I think that the original title works better. Kokopelli7309 (talk) 18:02, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
• Comment, I support but it should be 2020-2021 New York nursing home scandal, since the scandal itself occurred in 2020 not 2021. CaliIndie (talk) 19:10, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Personally, I think this article should be combined with Andrew Cuomo's main article, but if it's going to exist, it needs a NPOV title. I worry about including the year as the scandal spans two years. Simply mentioning COVID separates it from the previously mentioned nursing home scandals. Something like New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal might work. Kyjama (talk) 19:58, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Nothing about the current title is NPOV breaking, the article is about Cuomo and his response to the COVID-19 pandemic, as it says on the tin. The problem is its unnecessarily long length making it cumbersome. CaliIndie (talk) 20:16, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support': the year isn’t needed because this is exclusive to Andrew Cuomo and his administration’s screw‘ups so just calling it the Andrew Cuomo nursing home scandal could work. I don’t think merging it with the original Andrew Cuomo article would be a good idea since there are ongoing investigations and other new investigations are planned. Who knows how big of a scope this is going to cover when it’s resolved? SRD625 (talk) 13:05, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
• Support: This name is an improvement, but as stated above, I would prefer to have COVID-19 in the title. I strongly support New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal - JHelzer💬 22:52, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support, The new title is much more understandable and less wordy. The term 'scandal' is already used by other news sources for reporting purposes. The new title would be more clear and easier to understand for readers. Linphil (talk) 03:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support: I strongly support change of name to New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal. As mentioned by another person above, the year is not necessary because it is exclusive to the Cuomo administration and its screwups, and the scandal has also spread not just over the course of this year, but also last year. Unknown0124 (talk) 13:48, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support: I concur with change of name to New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal, because this has the potential to significantly change the electoral viability of specifically Andrew Cuomo. Comment: Because Andrew Cuomo is the most prominent accused figure in the scandal, should we find a way to include his name in the title? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Osunpokeh (talk • contribs) 20:40, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support, The term scandal is more fitting and this new title is way better because it mentions nursing homes, maybe instead of New York it could be Cuomo Administration in that scenario because the scandal has received bipartisan condemnation in New York but this name change is a lot more fitting and better. Anish631 (talk) 20:35, 21 February 2021 (UTC) Anish631
• Support change to "New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal." This is a better, more consistent title than the current one, and it's important to include mention of the coronavirus in the title. --1990'sguy (talk) 22:28, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

• Weak oppose "Nursing home scandal" is ambiguous for two reasons: (1) it sound as if it is the fault of nursing homes, (2) unspecific, what sort of scandal? The nature of this scandal is really "alleged cover-up of nursing home deaths" and such nomenclature is widely reported in the media. While the requested move is better than the original, I suggest to move it to Alleged cover-up of COVID-19 nursing home deaths in New York. -- love.wh 02:40, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support, changing title to New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal is the least biased and least complicated title that I have heard suggested as of yet. Although we should make sure that the other recommendations as well as the current title redirect to this page if we do go through with the move (which appears likely looking at the support for the change). I know someone said that saying nursing home scandal makes it sound like this was the fault of the nursing homes, but I actually disagree. Calling it a nursing home scandal (at least to me) means that it involved nursing homes, but not implicating fault on anyone. Just like how we say Watergate scandal even though what happened wasn't the fault of the Watergate office building or the people working at Watergate, saying Nursing home scandal doesn't lay the blame on the nursing homes and staff. Let me know what you all think. Thanks a bunch! --Negrong502 (talk) 15:16, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

• Support The title New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal follows the conventions of previous scandals, is the most concise, and is the least partisan. Thriley (talk) 23:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

• Comment, Perhaps change "scandal" to "controversy"? 13:15, 23 February 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.11.70.6 (talk)

• Weak oppose I do agree we should change the name but the suggested move is way too vague as stated by some other editors. What is the scandal related to? Is it the fault of the nursing homes or is it just related to the nursing homes? Maybe something like what was suggested by User:lovewhatyoudo such as "Alleged cover-up of nursing home deaths in New York during the COVID-19 pandemic," though that would probably be too long. I wouldn't really mind if it was changed to the suggested title though, I don't have a very strong opinion regarding it. chri. (talk | contribs) 20:30, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

---

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 03:19, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal reportedly began by aides to Governor Andrew Cuomo trying to avoid "a giant political football"? (Source: The Economist)
  • ALT1:... that a report by Attorney General of New York Letitia James found that Governor Andrew Cuomo had undercounted nursing home COVID-19 deaths by up to 50 percent, leading to a scandal? (Source: The Economist)
  • ALT2:... that Governor of New York Andrew Cuomo, who was initially praised for his handing of the COVID-19 pandemic, is now implicated in a scandal related to it? (Source: BBC)
  • ALT3:... that Ron Kim alleges Governor Andrew Cuomo threatened to "destroy" him over the New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal? (Source: CNN)

Created by Yousef Raz (talk) and CaliIndie (talk). Nominated by AllegedlyHuman (talk) at 15:57, 25 February 2021 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: - ?
Overall: Well-written article on a current political scandal. I have taken the liberty of doing some minor copyediting. I don't think a QPQ is necessary since neither author has any DYK credits, but I'm not sure if it needs one from the nom (would like a second opinion). jp×g 22:41, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

@AllegedlyHuman: Any update on this? I am ready to approve it if there's a QPQ. jp×g 21:16, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

JPxG, I am a relatively new editor a currently only have one previous DYK (Simone Gold). Thanks for reviewing the nomination. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 21:19, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Approved. I don't know how I didn't see that you only had one DYK before! jp×g 21:26, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

New York Times report

The NY Times released a story yesterday that goes into great detail:[1] Thriley (talk) 21:36, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

"Cuomo's cover-up"

I just removed this sentence from the lead of the article. Even though I don't like Cuomo's actions as much as the next guy, I'm not sure this is an appropriate thing to mention in the lead. It is concerning that this was previously worded as "The name of the scandal is often shorten as Cuomo's cover-up", which was not only grammatically incorrect but reeks of WP:NPOV violations (since the only sources that "often" referred to the scandal like that are Republican party-affiliated sources, cartoons, and editorials). Regardless of the fact that half of these are from reliable sources, I'm not sure we should be using partisan sources, cartoons, or editorials as a source for anything being an authoritative name. Epicgenius (talk) 14:35, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

The scandal has also been referred to as Cuomo's cover-up

References

A quick fix would be "The (long) name of the scandal is often shorten by political commentators as Cuomo's cover-up". The point I want to make is, tell the readers the sources might be POV, don't just remove possible POV sources. // By the way, in journalism and everyday life, a short name for something complicated is always in need. Cuomo's cover-up is the most common short name, unfortunately. -- love.wh 15:13, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Lovewhatyoudo, my quibble is with using the word "often" to paint so broad a picture. As I've mentioned, the sources used to back up this name are only Republican party-affiliated sources, cartoons, and editorials (unless there's some news articles I've missed). I think if this is included in the article, the sentence could be clarified to make this distinction. I have no problem mentioning this in some way if there are reliable sources that describe how these sources dub the nursing home scandal as "Cuomo's cover-up". Furthermore, even if this is included in the article, I would suggest putting the "Cuomo cover-up" name in the New York COVID-19 nursing home scandal#Media section, rather than in the lead. Otherwise, it may quickly attract questionable additions like this IP user's edit, which claimed that the cover-up was a far-right conspiracy. Epicgenius (talk) 15:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Oh, now I see where are you coming from. Um, then I suggest to change the lead to "The nature of the scandal is widely known as an "alleged cover up by Governor Cuomo" across political spectrum, which Cuomo denied.", and add "Cuomo cover-up" name in media as you suggested. I want to clear up who was accused for the alleged cover-up, and the sources cited for alleged cover-up held Cuomo responsible for it, and they were indeed from different ends of the political spectrum. -- love.wh 15:59, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Lovewhatyoudo, I think that would work. Epicgenius (talk) 16:46, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

• I just added "Cuomo's cover-up" would be added to the media paragraph. -- love.wh 08:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I originally edited the lead for the current sentence, being an "alleged cover up", although at this point "alleged" may soon be gone as this story continues to develop. The scandal isn't relegated to just Cuomo but most of his admin as well, following the NYT report of several of his aides personally manipulating the data themselves. "Cuomo's cover up" is misleading, it implies only Cuomo is involved and that he was the mastermind behind the entire plot, which has yet to be proven. It's undoubtable the scandal is entirely regarded as a cover up, however, just to castaway any doubt the phrase itself is the issue here. CaliIndie (talk) 19:00, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I would suppose the readers understand that the name "Cuomo's cover-up" doesn't mean Cuomo is the only person in his administration to be involved in the scandal. If you want to get it accurate, it's "Cuomo and his subordinates". -- love.wh 08:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

• My concern is that the event hasn't really been given one clear name. If it was universally referred to as one thing (even if partisan or erroneous, like the Poincaré conjecture which has now been proven) we would use that per WP:COMMONNAME. However, the current page title is descriptive, and "Cuomo's coverup" is too. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 19:15, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Update

Further information was released today in the New York Times. [2] Thriley (talk) 19:24, 28 April 2021 (UTC)