Talk:New religious movements in the United States

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:New religious movements in the United States/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Phlsph7 (talk · contribs) 20:17, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this one. I hope to have my initial assessment ready soon. Phlsph7 (talk) 20:17, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, this is a WP:QUICKFAIL: many paragraphs and some whole subsections lack sources. I've added the corresponding "citation needed" tags. A further serious issue concerns potential copyright violations. Besides that, there are also other problems that need to be addressed, as listed below. My suggestion would be to take care of the issues pointed out as best as you can and then send the article to peer review before the next good article nomination.

Other observations:

• WP:EARWIG shows potential copyright violations with https://moorish.org/noble-drew-ali, https://timenote.info/lv/person/view?id=10325730&l=en, and https://www.jewage.org/wiki/en/Article:Anton_LaVey_-_Biography.

I think these are false positives. Jewage is a GFDL wiki that presumably copied us. Moorish.org seems likely to have appears to have copied from us. I've reported the latter to Copyright problems. Feoffer (talk) 06:37, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

This problem is discussed at WP:BACKWARDSCOPY. In my experience, for unknown personal websites and blogs, it's usually them who copy from us. I haven't heard of the timenote.info but according to archive.org, it already had the text in 2020, i.e. before our article was created, see [1]. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:50, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Timenote seems to be copying from Anton LaVey [2] Feoffer (talk) 17:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Great that you spotted that! It might be a good idea to use Template:Backwards copy on the talk page so that you don't run into the same problem in the next GA review. Phlsph7 (talk) 19:37, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done Great idea. Feoffer (talk) 21:02, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• There are many duplicate wikilinks, for example, Joseph Smith, William Miller, Adventism, and Mesmerism. See WP:DUPLINK.

 Done. I think I got 'em all. I found a js to highlight duplinks, is there a tool that will show me the dupelinks directly? Feoffer (talk) 07:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I think you got them all. I use User:Evad37/duplinks-alt. Phlsph7 (talk) 08:50, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• The first occurrance of the topic name in the lead should be in bold but without a wikilink.

 DoneFeoffer (talk) 07:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• It should be explained in the beginning somewhere what the term "new religious movements" means.

 DoneFeoffer (talk) 07:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• Some of the sources are unreliable, like answers.com and youtube.

 Done 18:46, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I think http://www.discogs.com/Anton-LaVey-The-Satanic-Mass/release/1166426 is also an unreliable source, see WP:RSDISCOGS. You can use the script User:Headbomb/unreliable to check for unreliable sources. By the way, you should really use this for your other GA nomination, Keith Raniere, since it uses many unreliable sources. Phlsph7 (talk) 19:38, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Cleaned up this article and Raniere. Feoffer (talk) 23:25, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• The article lacks a WP:Short description.

 DoneFeoffer (talk) 07:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

• In its current form, it reads a little like a list of the different movements. For an article, it might be good to have some more general discussions of the topic. This could include the discussion of the characteristics that these movements have in common or how they differ from each other, for example, concerning the diversity of practices, the role of personal experience, and the tendency to challenge traditional religious institutions. It could also discuss controversies surrounding them, their influence on mainstream culture, and what kinds of people are attracted to them.
• Some cases of WP:OVERCITE:
  • including the Trinity, hellfire, and inherent immortality of the soul, were not substantiated by the scriptures.[54][55][56][57]
  • LaVey performed Satanic baptisms (including the first Satanic baptism in history for his three-year-old daughter Zeena, dedicating her to Satan and the Left-Hand Path, which garnered worldwide publicity and was originally recorded on The Satanic Mass LP)[113][114][115][116]

Phlsph7 (talk) 20:55, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the excellent feedback. I'll start tackling the simpler fixes and begin thinking seriously how to de-listify / add general discussion. Feoffer (talk) 22:00, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

I'm not an expert on the topic but feel free to ping me if you encounter some issues in the process. Having a look at how the article New religious movement approaches these issues might also be helpful. Phlsph7 (talk) 22:16, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Notes to self / Still to do'

• Improve lede NRM def to one explicitly citable
• find tool to confirm absence of duplinks

Feoffer (talk) 07:29, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

Other article

I enjoyed reading this article, and learned some things from it. This article seems to be mostly the "origin stories" of selected groups, which is interesting. There is another article, New religious movement, that has a lot more more background on the general topic. Burgundy1983 (talk) 17:02, 10 February 2023 (UTC)