Talk:Newark Northgate railway station

Lincoln-London

Do people plan to keep the route box for NXEC's proposed service to Lincoln on this page for three years? Please tell me what the point of that is? No one knows what the route will be, and three years is plenty of time for people to change their minds. This should be removed until nearer to when it is due to start. Hammersfan, 05/09/07, 16.08 BST

The route is via the ECML. Every rail magazine says it. ACBest 16:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I second that, if you look at articles like Hartlepool railway station and Ruabon railway station they both mention future train operations. This service is well documented and there is absolutely no valid reason not to include the service in the article. Danielnez1 19:32, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but those services (which will be run by Grand Central and Wrexham & Shropshire) are starting within the next year, not starting in three years time. Hammersfan 06/09/07, 13.39 BST

This is rare, I'm agreeing with Hammersfan. Consensus is not to put route boxes in for far off future services. So imminent stuff like the open access operators, CTRL stage 2, etc is OK, but stuff like the East London Line phase two (the extension over south London) is too far off. If the article is really well written and sufficiently long, and actually discuses future developments then maybe... Pickle 04:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

This is why we have tags regarding future rail developments. In the case of Wrexham & Shropshire all of the route boxes were added way before any approval was granted. It would be understandable not to include this information if it was all just rumour and speculation, which it is not. The purpose of Wikipedia is to inform, weather it is about the past, present or future. --Danielnez1 09:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Protected

I've protected the page for 1 week given an apparent edit war. Please use the talk page to resolve the dispute and come to consensus. If you reach consensus before the week is up, you can go to WP:RFPP to request that this page be unprotected early. MastCell ^Talk 21:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Renaming of page

Newark Northgate (as two not three words) seems to be the main use of the spelling - the National Rail website, station signage, and now the LNER website mostly use Northgate as one word.

This page should perhaps be renamed unless there is any proof that the two-word spelling is officially correct. Otherwise we should go by the signs, no? M. Lala-Raykar (talk) 21:41, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 13 January 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Mdaniels5757 (talk • contribs) 21:01, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

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Newark North Gate railway station → Newark Northgate railway station – As per EpicChefUK above, National Rail, LNER, East Midlands Railway, and station signage use the two-word variant of this station. No official source uses "North Gate" as two separate words. As such a move might be disputed, I am starting this request on behalf of the user above. Jalen Folf (talk) 06:18, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

• Support - seems to be primary spelling. Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 06:30, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
• The OS uses 2 words but English Heritage uses just 1. Signage seems mixed. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:23, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
• Comment. I've looked at all the photos of the station on Commons that show the station name and at first glance usage is mixed, but the eight photos taken in 2010 or later shows only "Northgate", the photograph from 2005 shows "North Gate", the photographs taken in 2007 show mixed usage but with a majority (3 vs 1) for the two word form plus one photograph with both. There are no photos dated 2006, 2008, 2009 or post 2017. The station totem on Google Street View has always used "Northgate", but the earliest available view is 2009. A google image search found six more clearly dateable images showing the station name, one from 2004 showed "North Gate", the other five from between 2013 and 2021 all had "Northgate". However, the RAIB used "Newark North Gate" in the title of a report published in 2015, the National Rail website used the two word form in November 2022 (most of the site seems to use just one word though, e.g.[1]) as did a Bradford local newspaper two days ago [2]. Thryduulf (talk) 13:29, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
• Comment. I looked at google search results restricted to specific relevant domains and following frequencies:

Search	"Newark North Gate" -"Northgate"		"Newark Northgate" -"North Gate"
Domain	# results	latest dated	# results	latest dated
bbc.co.uk	30	2019	17	2022
newark-sherwooddc.gov.uk	15	2022	30	2022
nottinghamshire.gov.uk	8	2017	26	2017
lner.co.uk	251	2022	20	2022
nationalrail.co.uk	74	2022	37	2023
newarkadvertiser.co.uk	5	2020	208	2022
nottinghampost.com	27	2022	57	2022

Note that only results where Google displayed a date were considered for the latest-dated figures, most results from the county and borough councils were undated. Thryduulf (talk) 19:24, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

• Weak support. It's clear from the all the data above that both forms are in common use, and both are used by "official sources" (so that part of the nomination statement is wrong) so there is no right or wrong answer and redirects from one form to the other should not be tagged as incorrect or former. However WP:NCUKSTATIONS says If there is any doubt about what the official name is, the name given on the station platforms should be used. and the evidence is clear that the station platforms currently use the form "Newark Northgate". Thryduulf (talk) 19:24, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

  I've created many Commons categories on pubs recently and to decide if things like "The" on "Inn" should be part of the name normally I look at the name written on the pub its self or the sign. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:09, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

  The two are not directly comparable. For an establishment like a pub, the establishment themselves are pretty clearly the most reliable source for the precise name of that establishment. However railway stations are more complex given the station owners, operators, each organisation operating trains there, schedulers, signallers and the DfT are all reliable sources for the name and all (at least some-degree of) "official". There is no guarantee that they will all agree (even with themselves, as shown above). Thryduulf (talk) 22:58, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.