Talk:Niacin/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

list of niacin like pharmaceuticals

I think I read about xanthinol nicotinate which is kind of like caffeine attached to niacin as a lipid reducing drug Are there others Things like Niacin dimers (two niacins connected) as well as halogenated niacins like fluoroniacin or chloroniacin could have much stronger lipid changing effects with the stronger receptor affinity; perhaps even absent the niacin feeling (splenda is chlorosucrose 300 times more active at sweetness receptors)

also its possible that a phosphophenyl version of niacin (thats a phosphorus where the nitrogen is) may have novel drug effects

It would be beneficial to list the various niacin drugs here

picamilon niacin linked to GABA—Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.211.132.187 (talk) 16:16, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Vitamin P-P

[quote]It has historically been referred to as "vitamin PP" or "vitamin P-P".[/quote]

I'm assuming this is a comical reference to the side effect by which vitamins yellow the urine, but I don't know enough about Niacin to be sure. Anybody clarify this?

96.235.5.224 (talk) 12:02, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Name "pyridine-3-carboxylate" incorrect

The suffix "carboxylate" indicates an ester or a salt of a carboxylic acid. Nicotinic acid is neither.

71.241.104.251 02:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The -ate suffix for acids is nowadays often used (e.g. lactate, acetate, instead of lactic or acetic acid) in biochemical writing to refer to acids that under physiologic pH conditions are largely ionized.CharlesHBennett (talk) 05:44, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Molecular Formula and SMILES

C6H4NO2- or C6H5NO2 (neutral). The SMILES should match one or the other.

REferance: MedlinePlus Herbs and Supplements: Niacin http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-niacin.html

Diet

Where it says "inadequate dietary intake of vitamin B3 may also therefore lead to depression", is that "may" as in "sometimes causes depression" or "may" as in "some people think it causes depression (but there's no hard evidence either way)"?

Also, what's this "Vitamin P" business?

--221.249.13.34 05:16, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I believe Vitamin P is an older name for niacin derived either from "paprika", a rich source of niacin, or from "pellagra" (or "pellagra-preventive"), referring to the deficiency disease. D021317c 21:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

It would be nice to have a list of a few foods or plants that are rich in niacin on this page. The Hominy page mentions that "The process also converts some of the niacin in the maize into a form more absorbable by the body"...

(I didn't write that last, unsigned paragraph.) Lye destroys a chemical (I'm drawing a blank at the moment) which blocks the absorption of niacin. According to _Understanding Nutrition_ (8th edition: instructor's edition) ISBN 0-534-54612-9, page 301, "At least 70 percent of the niacin in corn is bound to complex carbohydrates and small peptides, making it unavailable for absorption. Furthermore, corn is high in the amino acid leucine, which interferes with the tryptophan-to-niacin conversion, thus further contributing to the development of pellagra." I'm pretty sure I once knew the name of the chemical I'm thinking of. Oh, well. D021317c 21:21, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Corn

This page links to the disambiguation page corn, but I'm not sure which sense is intended. Can you help? Thanks. — Pekinensis 23:34, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I realized that the reference was redundant in the first place and removed it. — Pekinensis 03:56, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Just a quick note, whoever added the information about tryptophan bioavailability in corn did an excellent job, wiki needs more of this level of relevant public health information. It should be cited though - did this come from any peer-refereed journal? Added a "citation needed" note.72.186.157.71 (talk) 17:54, 1 September 2008 (UTC) Never mind, there is a citation but the text was copied directly out of a medical information page. I put the text in quotes, but it looks choppy - can someone clean it up?72.186.157.71 (talk) 17:57, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

THC Elimnation

If this is true won't other drugs also be eliminated by the higher rate of metabolism? Why simply specify THC, why not DMT or DET? Or any other drug for that matter (that is metabolised by the liver)?

Food for drugheads. JFW | T@lk 23:00, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Actually the Psychiatric Times reference also mentions someone trying it to mask cocaine use (and getting hospitalized as a result). However, mentioning THC here is in line with most of the literature which is reponding to the folklore - eg "Use of Niacin in Attempts to Defeat Urine Drug Testing --- Five States, January--September 2006". Morbidity Mortality Weekly Report. 56 (15). Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: 365. 20 April 2007. Retrieved 2008-03-04. No scientific evidence indicates that taking niacin can alter a urine drug test result. However, readily accessible information on the Internet lists ingestion of niacin as a way to prevent detection of tetrahydracannabinol (THC), the main psychoactive ingredient of marijuana. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |MMWR_Type= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |issue_Num= ignored (help) (emphasis mine, for the anon below who thinks we don't read actual encyclopedias) --Bazzargh (talk) 10:43, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Since Niacin speeds up metabolism, is it now the chic replacement for ephedrine for weight loss

- In response to the above question, it probably helps with those too. THC was probably mentioned for two reasons.

-1. Because it is the a commonly used drug that has no obvious dangers.

-2. Because it occupies the body for a fairly long time, as opposed to other mind altering drugs.

No, because THC is the only one that clings to fat cells.

This whole wikiepedia thing is dumb. I know for a fact than 500-1000 mg of niacin (taken right) flushes THC out out of your system in less than 6 hours. Maybe you should all start reading the actual encyclopedia and not the one where a bunch of know it all wannabe dawkins are spewing their beliefs. (Or you all could just start smoking pot, it's good man I tell ya.) P.S. Whoever posted that last comment about the fat cells, thank you for not being so dumb. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.10.1.118 (talk)

haha I agree, i was shocked to see wikipedia saying that 'scientific studies' show that niacin doesn't work, when me, my ex-gf, and even 2 of my friends have tried niacin and it worked for urine drug screens.. lol this type of shit makes me question wikipedia now.. seriously though, i'm not writing this to bullshit, which is why i came to wiki in the first place... pfft.

good luck trying to get a source for it though, just try to consider how that would even be possible... -signed, truthful herb user (98.227.47.177)

Well, if you know that "for a fact", please provide a citation to a reliable secondary source. --Slashme 14:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

You'll find it in the Stoner Journal of Unverified Bullshit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.95.197.157 (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't the citation for niacin not working to flush out pot be put after it says that instead of after it says that people try to use it for that? It makes it sound like it's an unsupported claim. On a personal note I love that a guy that can't spell wikipedia and makes unreferenced claims accuses writers on this site of spewing their beliefs! 70.94.34.208 (talk) 04:38, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Adding in my claim that this section needs to be adjusted. I've passed tests within 24 hours of smoking and then super-loading niacin and I know it works. All but two people I have suggested the method to have failed (and they failed because they didn't trust the method and went and bought the stuff you drink... which got detected). Scientific study my ass. One bogus source proves nothing. Damn Wiki. -Almega

Tell me if this does not solve the question, because it seems that this is exactly what niacin does and if it does it would take out thc no problem.

Niacin has the property of causing the small blood vessels to increase in size. These are the capillaries. Now, capillaries are often so small that the blood cells pass through them in single file. It is the capillaries that take care of the vast majority of all the cells in the body. You have large arteries near the heart, and they get smaller and smaller as they extend from the heart. But, at the end of every well-sized artery is a very large network of capillaries. They all start from the heart -- but at the end of the line they are tiny, tiny capillaries.

Just take an arbitrary number for the number of living cells in your body -- perhaps one billion. The exact number is not critical for this purpose. Now, the question is: "How many of those billion cells are within a fraction of an inch away from one of the large arteries so that they can get rid of toxins directly into that artery, and to get nutrients from that artery?" I don't know, but I'll guess that it is less than 20% of all those cells.

Now, there are many miles of the small capillaries in your body -- a vast network which gets within a small fraction of an inch of EVERY cell in the body. It is the capillaries which nourish the cells and which carry away the toxins.

Now, add into this equation the fact that most of the toxins in the body are stored in fat cells. These fat cells can hold on to toxins for years, never letting it go until some "event" (like sweating or exercise). Then, the fat cells give up their toxins and they start leaking out into the surrounding tissues. You can have a slow-leak batch of fat cells that are poisoning you constantly. Much of the disease that plagues mankind certainly comes from the constant slow leak of toxins from these fat cells.

These fat cells, like the millions of others, are all within a fraction of an inch of some capillary, but IF that capillary is clogged (as most often they are), and if the blood cells move through them only one cell at a time (single file), then you can see that there is not much chance for those toxins to be cleaned up by the flow of blood.

If you could find something that would increase the size of these capillaries, and not cause any harmful or adverse reaction, you can see how beneficial this would be.

In fact, niacin does this -- it causes these miles of tiny capillaries to increase in size. It is the INCREASE in size, partly, which causes your skin to get red.

While there are miles of these capillaries all through your body, it is near the surface of your body where the arteries are NOT! So, as all the large surface of your body, your skin, is nourished by these small capillaries, and as the capillaries get larger, you can naturally see how the skin would show that increase in blood by getting red!

But, there is something else going on. I don't know of very many researchers who have told this story in terms that the average person can understand. There is another substance to learn a bit about -- it is a hormone called "histamine." You know of this substance when you buy "anti-histamine" medicines. Without getting into a long story on that, the "anti-histamine" substances are meant to reduce the action of histamine -- this is usually not good!(http://www.shanti.com.au/cleanses/niacin_flush.htm)karl Loren Website: http://www.oralchelation.com

Marijuana screening has a 66 % chance for a false positive ---(Center for Disease Control, The Results of Unregulated Testing, Journal of the American Medical Association (April 26, 1985). In Abbie Hoffman and Jonathan Silvermans book 'Steal This Urine Test', they comment on how companies vary on policy as to what 'grey area' THC levels are considered 'beyond false' , as well as documenting recognized OTC and other chems that would create an inconclusive test. So with a 33 percent accuracy rate on THC screening, there are alot of unlucky (and lucky ) people out there as far as Pre and Random testing is concerned.---perceive with reason —Preceding unsigned comment added by Perceive with reason (talk • contribs) 01:52, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.125.168.2 (talk) 21:28, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Don't count on the false positives of screening tests for a defense. They are notoriously inaccurate, however the positives are generally sent for confirmatory testing (e.g. chromatography , spectroscopy, antibody etc.). From what I read above, maybe the niacin interferes with the screening test? The niacin molecule is an aromatic dynamo. It is excreted in the urine in high concentrations. So...? However... It does effect "THC" receptors (Plant extract may block cannabis addiction" http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11904-plant-extract-may-block-cannabis-addiction-.html

1. ^ Solinas M, Scherma M, Fattore L, et al. (May 2007). "Nicotinic alpha 7 receptors as a new target for treatment of cannabis abuse". J. Neurosci. 27 (21): 5615–20. doi:10.1523/JNEUROSCI.0027-07.2007. PMID 17522306). ??? (68.184.0.74 (talk) 13:28, 12 February 2011 (UTC))

Misc

It might be mentioned that Niacin is one of the 3 primary ingredients used in the enrichment process of flour.

http://www.wholefoods.com/healthinfo/enriched.html

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=21&PART=137&SECTION=165&YEAR=2001&TYPE=TEXT

You're free to add it to the article. JFW | T@lk 13:51, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Since this is misc, I might as well ask here, would it be good or bad for you for Niacin to be one of the ingredients of a sports drink?

Band

There's also a band called Niacin.

There's a band for every article in Wikipedia. Most of them are utterly unnotable. JFW | T@lk 13:51, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

"pootie tang"

Second paragraph, someone altered the sentence, "Nicotinic acid was first discovered from the oxidation of pootie tang" Someone playing a joke, but I have no idea what it should really say...

(I didn't contribute the paragraph above.) According to Merck Index 13 ISBN 0911910-13-1, section 6552 Nicotinic acid, "Prepn by oxidation of alkyl beta-substituted pyridines: A. Ladenburg, _Ann._ *301*, 152 (1898)." According to its list of abbreviations, _Ann._ means _Justus Liebig's Annalen der Chemie_. No information yet on discovery. D021317c 21:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Composition error

Something is missing at the second line of the main niacin article, probably an eduting error. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.4.16.102 (talk • contribs) 05:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC).

The words "whose derivatives" were missing. I have fixed it. Now it reads: Niacin, also known nicotinic acid or vitamin B3, is a water-soluble vitamin whose derivatives such as NADH plays essential roles in energy metabolism in the living cell. --Eddi (Talk) 00:47, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Michalek effect

I went and googled for "Michalek effect" and came up with nothing. I find this suspicious. --kop 06:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I searched even further, but I found only Wikipedia mirrors. However, www.nationmaster.com/ Nationmaster, one of the mirrors, has some additional information. Here are both versions as of today, with differences in italics:

Wikipedia

Because niacin promotes metabolism, some believe that taking large doses will speed up the elimination of THC from the body and produce a negative result for marijuana on a drug test. There is no evidence that this is effective, and niacin is toxic to the skin and liver in overdose, especially as it releases the extra toxins. This is known as the Michalek effect due to the toxic skin conditions as well as behavioral changes when Niacin is in ones system. There is also anecdotal evidence that doses of 500-1000mg can terminate a bad trip on LSD, a synthetic indole, or enhance the MDMA experience.

www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Niacin Nationmaster

Because niacin promotes metabolism, some believe that taking large doses will speed up the elimination of THC from the body and produce a negative result for marijuana on a drug test. There is no evidence that this is effective, and niacin is toxic to the skin and liver in overdose. There is also anecdotal evidence that doses of 500-1000mg can terminate a bad trip on LSD or enhance the MDMA experience. Anecodotal evidence also suggests that niacin taken to remove the presence of a toxin stored in certain cells may also flood the system in a very short time period, resulting in symptoms similiar to traditional ingestion of the substances in question. This is known in some cirlces as the Michalek effect.

No references are given other than those from Wikipedia. Perhaps this is not significant anyway. --Eddi (Talk) 12:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I searched Pub Med and other medical dictionaries. I am pretty confident that the condition described by the term "Michalek effect" is not scientificly investigated nor accepted by any medical clinicians as an actual phenomenon. Niubrad 03:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I have checked as many sources I could for behavioral changes and the so-called "Michalek effect". None found. Will remove from article. Ifnord 04:40, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Good grief, I searched "Michalek effect" and can see people are quoting a (likely) bogus term they obviously first learned from this very page. Before long someone will do their PhD thesis on this and it will become a real thing 129.78.233.210 (talk) 06:11, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Biosynthesis

Someone please correct the picture of the synthensis pathway with the enyzmes, I don't have a program to draw them. This should be the pathway:

Tryptophan --(Tryptophan oxygenase)--> N-formylkynurenine --> Kynurenine --> 3-OH kynurenine --(B6, Kynureninase)--> 3-0h xyanthranilic acid --> --> -->Niacin

Source: Introduction to clincal nutrition, 2nd edition Vishwanath Sardesai 2003

141.217.221.212 22:01, 25 March 2006 (UTC)AStudent

Up to the anthranil that's just the usual tryptophan catabolism. You won't find supported info about the rest, at the moment. See my post down below. --Ayacop (talk) 17:50, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Niacin / Blood pressure

I have high blood pressure (hypertension) and have been told that niacin is no good for a person who is hypertensive is this so? why? This is a B complex suplement from a health shop.

My doctor has PRESCRIBED niacin to address my hypertension, but there are some mild side-effects: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-niacin.html

-K

References: cleanup

I edited the references in this article to at least give descriptive names, and sort out the numbering. The web refs still need to be properly cited, though. I will put this page on my to-do list. Apart from the somewhat dodgy references, it would do me good to do a literature survey on this topic. --Slashme 09:50, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

niacin is believed to be the best treatment for many types od coronary heart disease, IT SAVE MY LIFE; refer to LIFE EXTENSION MAGAZINE --MARCH 2007.

Information not verified

I think that the part regarding the use of niacin as vasodilator should be removed since I couldn't find any reference to this use in any book of pharmacology I looked. Plico 17:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletion

deleted text: A large amount of B3 Ingested can increase your sex drive. Plico 17:13, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

vandalism of dyslipidemias, WP:NPA discussion

When you use systematic, naked reverts & trivially refuted, uncivil labelling to describe my edit, "08:37, 23 June 2006 Ackoz (rv no pseudoscience per WP:NPOV)"[2], I construe that as a personal attack[3](it was knowably not a legitmate comment on content for a doctor). Almost everything you deleted there [4](one exception) was sourced from Dr William Parsons' latest book (and in conjunction with other conventional references). Parsons *is* the longest recognized, and best documented, US conventional medical authority on niacin for dyslipidemias[5], where you also deleted the reference to his book (best accessible reference for the public). And although you may deny this is WP:NPA, I commend review of the words "broaching", "breeching" as well as "wikilawyering"

If you want to be constructive, addressing European sources and extended, rigorous evidence on inositol hexanicotinate (IHN), would be nice. Here in North America, there seem to be a lot of IHN failures with some niacin/nicotinate interested parties, from reports of hit or miss results to outright allegations of medical/scientific fraud(!) and hydrolysis issues. Whether this is a source problem or what is going on, I don't know, but I am sure there is a problem here (# of strong medical sources) and no one publicly seems to be talking or working the problem. Reports on inositol hexanicotinate do vary.--69.178.41.55 07:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Decent niacin hexanicotinate refs

For all the claims on how much better the hexanicotinate IHN is than plain niacin for dyslipidemias, there really ought to be better evidence than two VERY small human trials from 1961 (neither of which was big enough to measure any clinical endpoints). Did I miss something? Because this question surely isn't something that yields well to a standard 1965+ medline search (as I find to my frustration), which possibly is why the "pro" references all seem to be indirect: which is to say, to popular books which refer in turn to very old studies in rather obscure journals.

So, how about putting in some updated material on this compound, OR else noting that recent class A info just doesn't exist? Both are fair ways of dealing with lack of information. Breathless endorsements based on tiny 45 year-old short-term trials, are not how standard science-based, evidence-based medicine is supposed to work. Steve 16:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There isn't any. Or let's put it this way: The Inositol Hexaniacinate Monograph in Alt Med Review 1998;3(3):222-223 compounds the error by citing only the Dorner and Welsh clinical trials from 1961 (and neglects to mention that El-Enein 1983 was with rabbits). A case study (no benefit at up to 2000 mg/day) by RB Morris [Preventive Cardiol 2006;9(1):64-65] cites Ziliotti 1977, Agusti 1978 and Kruse 1979. Z & K reported no benefit. A reported 8.2% decrease, but it was an uncontrolled trial. Z used 1326 mg/day in 59 subjects and reported no significant improvement in total chol and a trend for DECREASED HDL-C. Finally, AM Benjo [Atherosclerosis 2006;187:116-122] reported no lipid improvements after 3 mo at 1500 mg/day. So like many other dietary supplements, a mountain of marketing balanced upside down on a weak peak of conflicting evidence.David notMD (talk) 16:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Very useful. I was afraid of that. Well, are you going to bite the bullet and add this, or shall I? SBHarris 04:21, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Harris - I added content to the text. Apologies that I have been too lazy to learn how to properly cite references rather than just embed them in the text.David notMD (talk) 15:36, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Medical use

---

Nicotinic acid is one of the oldest drug used to treat dyslipidemia being able to affects all lipid parameters [Knopp et al. Metabolism, 1985, 34:642-650] It has been reported to lower triglycerides by 35% to 45% and LDL-c by 20% to 30% [Knopp 1985].

Niacin in large quantities is a vasodilator. Large amounts of niacin (either from vitamin B3 tablets or from treated meats) may cause dose related, harmless and short-lived sensations ranging from a mildly pleasant warm flush to tingling to extreme skin flushing resembling a sunburn, itching, gastric disturbances, and lowering of blood pressure. The amide form (strictly speaking a provitamin) does not cause these side effects, but is also not as easily assimilated by the body.

This niacin flush occurs as a result of releasing histamine about 10 minutes to 2 hours after ingesting the niacin supplement(s), typically 5-30 minutes, depending on the supplement's disintegration, dissolution and absorption. Thus, even with "pure", "immediate release" niacin supplements, absorption, and any flush, will vary greatly with nature of the supplement (capsule, tablet, excipients, press, size) and the proximal meal's timing before, during, or after, size and menu. The flushing usually recedes during the first week(s) if gram amounts are consumed in divided doses as recommended for high cholesterol treatment, starting low and increasing stepwise every several days. Sometimes aspirin and vitamin C are used to ameliorate the flush. "Slow release", "extended release" and "no-flush" formulas are available to minimize or avoid a flush, but have other practical differences that need to be carefully considered. Some persons with an unusual metabolism have an unusually large native tolerance to "immediate release" niacin without flushing, often a nutritionally or even medically significant circumstance.

Large doses of niacin (as nicotinic acid, but not the niacinamide form) are prescribed to combat high blood pressure and to broadly improve blood cholesterol levels. Niacin is used to treat dyslipidemas because of its low cost and its unique ability to improve lipid profiles for ApoB, LDL, small dense LDL, HDL, HDL_2b - an extremely good cholesterol, Lp(a), fibrinogen and triglycerides . Pharmacologic doses of niacin (1.5 to 6 grams/day in divided doses) typically reduce LDL cholesterol levels by 10 to 25 percent and triglyceride levels by 20 to 50 percent. HDL cholesterol levels are also typically increased by 15 to 35 percent. Brand-name medications include Niaspan®, Niacor® and Nicolar®. Most slow-release pharmaceutical preparations are more stressful to the liver, repeated overdosage can be dangerous. There is disagreement as to if pure, immediate release nicotinic acid is harmful to the liver, possibly due to the confusion with the more dangerous pharmaceutical preparations.

The niacin treatment discoverer, Abram Hoffer, and other orthomolecular proponents generally add a full spectrum vitamin B formulation, such as B-50, and 1 to 4 times as much vitamin C as niacin to reduce liver stress. Liver cell activation and stress is easily monitored in the liver enzyme panel along with blood cholesterol measurements. Because of the liver stress associated with heavy alcohol consumption, regular drinkers and alcoholics may experience antabuse-like reactions with pharmacologic levels of niacin.

An esterified, no-flush derivative of niacin called Inositol hexanicotinate (IHN), also known as inositol hexaniacinate, is slowly hydrolyzed and has no reported side effects using 4 grams daily. Peak blood concentrations have been reported to be at 10 hours, but suggested dosing is at least 4 times a day. It is used extensively in Europe for Raynaud's disease. There is no known monotherapeutic treatment for cholesterol dyslipidemas that is more broadly effective and as gentle.

Another form of vitamin B3, niacinamide, has been used since the 1940's for osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis with tremendous success reported by William Kaufman, MD, PhD (1910-2000). Kaufman's recommended usage is about 4 grams a day in divided doses, more frequently being better. Dr. Kaufman advocated 500mg, and even 250mg doses, many times a day as being better than 1,000 mg 4 times a day. Nicotinic acid at least partially breaks down to niacinamide, so less niacinamide is needed if niacin treament for cholesterol is being used. Niacinamide may be safer for the liver than nicotinic acid, but nutritional supplement proponent and expert Michael Murray recommends testing liver function every 3 months when taking any high-dose form of niacin. Dr. Hoffer reports he has never seen liver problems result from taking any natural form of niacin with at least equal amounts of vitamin C .

Vitamin B3 has also been used in nutritional treatments of alcoholism, cancer, Bell's Palsy, schizophrenia, senility and other mental illnesses by orthomolecular practitioners . These treatments are largely based on improved circulation, NAD related energetics and cellular repairs, and the correction of abnormal indole metabolites. Often the nicotinamide form is used, as its lack of a flush is easier to self administer with new patients. Unfortunately orthomolecular psychiatric treatments remain adversarially disputed over disagreements about measurement, diagnosis, efficacy, protocols and specific populations. Recently interest in niacin as a phosphate reducing agent was generated by a clinical study from India where it was found to dramatically reduce high serum phosphate levels in chronic renal failure patients on hemodialysis.( K.Sampathkumar et al in International urology and nephrology,2006;38(1):171-4)

---

I chopped that out because it mingles confusion, repetition, poor phrasing (arrived at by serial edits I expect) misinformation, and linkspam.

Nicotinic acid but not Niacin has been used to reduce Cholesterol. It isn't very good at it. I'd want to see a reference to why a vasodilator would need to release histamine to cause flushing, and why it would be a good idea to take repeated doses of something that did that.

I do have one patient who for several reasons is treated with it. It doesn't work very well. Midgley 13:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow, the big test of one. "Nicotinic acid" in the US is usually used synonymously with niacin e.g. labels "Niacin (as nicotinic acid)", but a point taken. Conventional US physicians, taking a hint from the apostate [Abram Hoffer] 50 years ago have achieved 90-96% compliance (vs pharma phlunkies 60-70%) and presumably as close to overall targets as they can get. Some people absolutely can't handle statins. Niacin products vary greatly, a fact you need to assess carefully in selecting a "good" brand, it makes a difference to tolerances (flushing, liver) and results (long time release TRNA over an hour doesn't help HDL much, plain NA "instant" is *slightly* less effective on LDL but great for HDL). The best selling book,8 week cholesterol cure, and the most authoritative book, CCWD, in the popular press suggest Enduracin as a very good version of EP NA. The Annals of Internal Medicine article I mentioned previously[] slightly favored Rugby for plain niacin. According to Parson's book, if you are at less 6g with *plain* NA per day, or 3g of EP NA, or the individuals gastrointestinal limits (3x normal liver enzymes), or another medical limitation, you haven't really worked the problem. Read Parson's conventional medical book, "Cholesterol Control without Diet, the Niacin Solution" if you want to be expert at administering niacin in the conventional medical sense, the guy is a highly experienced, conventional MD & expert. Some people have different metabolisms and are quite different, but a niacin tolerance requiring more is possible - there seem to be three (not mutally exclusive) directions in niacin: titrating up with one of the *preferred* NA products, adding a second agent (and pharmas will even suggest a 3rd), and the other is Hoffer's extended orthomolecular version including lots of vitamin C, the 11 component B-50 multi-B vitamin. Some lucky individuals get a 45-50% LDL lowering, a 50+% HDL rise, nuke their TG under the orthomolecular versions of niacin, etc therapy, still eat like pigs. In the original "8 week cholesterol cure" book, in a sample of 15, 1-2 of these types show up. Cheap 200 to 500 mcg chromium picolinate or polynicotinate adjuvants are research subjects, especially for "metabolic syndrome" or "syndrome X". The result varies with the individual patient and physician's niacin skill.--69.178.41.55 20:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Spelling it out a little, then:- I have one patient who is (for various reasons) treated with it. This caused me to read some science on it. In common with that reading, which indicates that (half of) Niacin doesn't work well for lipids, my individual experience on which I comment for the possible interest of those reading, does not form an exception. I am indebted of course to the provider of tha advice that giving a sufficient dose of the alleged medicine is necessary before conlcuding it is not effective.

There is a lot of comment above, but none on "I'd want to see a reference to why a vasodilator would need to release histamine to cause flushing, and why it would be a good idea to take repeated doses of something that did that. " which remains relevant to the redacted text. Midgley 21:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

The vasodilation effect doesn't affect systemic pressure, and is harmless. Patients get used to it and most develop a tolerance for it (ie, it quits happening).

Niacin as the acid does lower cholesterol enough to be comparable to some other treatments, and is licensed for this use in various prescription formulations, by the FDA. So I do think this is worth mentioning in the article, along with effects on specific lipids. Better references for a Wiki article, from medline, are available for this, though. I think the fairest way to treat all this is to note that nicotinic acid is capable of dropping cholesterol substantially, but effects on cardiac outcomes have been too small to show up in meta analysis (though a trend is there) and meta analysis of availablee niacin treatment studies show no effect on overall mortality at all. Thus, while niacin is used by some physicians in some circumstances as a treatment to increase low HDL, especially in combination with other cholesterol drugs, class I evidence for its effect on overall health is still lacking. It appears safe. Further studies are awaited. I think this sort of thing could be defended. Indeed, niacin has its defenders in the orthodox medical community. I've criticised them, but that standard pharm use is large enough that it would be wrong not to acknowledge it. It's a "standard" medicine treatment that is still under scrutiny for ultimate benefits, if any. And it's not the first or last one, either. Steve 23:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Concur. Not a treatment for hypertension. Rates a paragraph - not a long paragraph - along line suggested above. Midgley 16:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Midgley -- could you produce your science? Also, are you sure nicotinic acid and not niacin is used to treat cholesterol? This doctor disagrees with you. ImpIn | {talk - contribs} 18:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

As has been noted, when you see "niacin" you can assume it's nicotinic acid (the flush-producer) that is being talked about, NOT niacinamide (which produces no flush, but also no effect on cholesterol). SBHarris 04:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to clean up the medical use part a bit, right now it has a long and pointless abstract sounding paragraph in it. Fuzbaby (talk) 21:02, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Hey folks, I changed link 48 in the therapeutics section as it wasn't right for the context. It now has a reference that is directly related to the context.. ie. that niacin doesn't work particularly well when added alongside statins. The old reference did not deal with this matter at all, rather it was very poor quality journalism that dealt with the drug combo of laropiprant and niacin (not statin and niacin!). I say poor quality without hesitation because not once did the article mention that the study in question was about a drug combination therapy. The whole article pretended the research was for a single drug therapy, and this is simply false (see here for the study: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1300955 ). In any case, false or not, the article was not right for the text in question, and this is why it needed to be changed. Zarkme (talk) 01:56, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Meta analysis of lipid treatment

There have been enough studies of various lipid treatments that meta analysis is appropriate. Basically, we don't care about lowering cholesterol with drugs or nutrients that don't change your cardiac event rate or your mortality risk. What good does it do you to die with good numbers? That's not the point. I'm even suspicious of treatments that lower cardiac event rate, if they don't at least show a trend toward lowering mortality risk. That may be a power problem, but if you don't at least see a trend toward lower mortality, it makes you wonder a lot about some compensitory bad effect. And at the very least, it means you need to treat a BOATLOAD of people to save even one life, like tens of thousands of patients for many years. At that point, it starts to look better to spend your money and time workin on people's blood pressure and the kind of car they drive, than working ot make sure they're swallowing multiple niacin pills.

In any case, the meta anaysis shows that statins, cholesterol binding resins, and fishoil have saved lives in proper studies. There's no evidence that fibrates or niacin do, yet there have been plenty of studies: PMID 15824290. In fact, niacin, fibrate and diet therapy all flunk badly, not even showing a trend.

When it comes to lowering cholesterol or triglycerides, all these treatments of course work, though they vary a great deal in what lipids they treat (fish oil and fibrates working better on triglycerides, statins on LDL, and so on). But again, who cares about fixing numbers? The cardiac event rate is way down for statins, in keeping with lower motality, as also of course for fish oil and resins. However, it's down only about 25% for fibrates and about that much also for niacin (too few studies to give confidence limits on niacin). That's why these treatments fail to show mortality drops. In fact, there's some evidence that some older fibrates (paticularly clofibrate with 25% excess mortality in a 150,000 man-years trial, see PMID 6105515) actually increase mortality. And the most commonly used fibrate (fenofibrate) used because still on-patent, has almost no long term data at all. The old gemfibrozil from VA-HIT showed a decrease in event rate but still no mortality drop, and it had equal power to most of the statin trials which did at least show mortality decrease trends. In any case, 30 trials with 4700 subjects failed to show any mortality drop in treating coronary disease with niacin: PMID 15653014. Basically niacin, and the fibrates as a class, treat lab tests. But are a bust at saving lives. I would suggest for both of them that you're treating yourself rather than your patient. But enjoy. Steve 22:59, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure what I said that brought the fibrates into niacin. Anyone since the CDP on Atromid would be very wary of Lucy and the football (Charlie Brown, suckered again).

The niacin story you guys are discussing is starting to get to alternative universe stuff. Most of the published long term niacin tests are for 1.5 - 3 grams/day or lower, CDP was 2 - 3 g/day of plain niacin. The serious clinical use of *plain* niacin is 3 - 6 grams per day, the best (newer) extended release formulas 1.5-2 grams targeted, with *careful* titration to 3 grams possible in a number of cases. Mixed niacin uses are possible for absolute maximum performance in some cases. The niacin story is further split by the type issues (plain(s) vs extended release (newest) and the old, slowest, most problematic time release versions (>1 hr) ). The recent test numbers, sponsored by pharmas, are at great variance with the early government plain niacin trials. CDP/Canner is really the authoritative longterm trial, an average of 6 yrs treatment, followed 15 yrs for an 11% decline in total mortality. More provocative is the earlier set of results from Dr Edwin Boyle at NIH where his data indicated that individual attention for high compliance rates and titration for effect yielded a 90% mortality reduction for those on niacin for 10 years against historical experience (yes, not a dbRCT) with a subpopulation.

The pharmas have long recognized two important facts, both in their public discussions and tacitly designing & running their tests: (1) the short term benefits of statins look better, say at less than 3-5 years, and (2) that their primary benefit is LDL, although statins do seem to have other properties. Steve as you alluded, especially for the low "high cholesterol" values, the absolute benefit numbers are very low and very expensive. I previously mentioned to Midgely that more recent "niacin" studies [6] alongside the statin were easy to identify, totally cooked to make the statin look good and/or the cheap generic look bad. Scientific misconduct type stuff (and doctors wonder why everyone is so down on them, something about the company one keeps or vice versa - I recently got correspondence from a prominent *conventional* doctor mentioning this ). Apparently pharma sponsored trials are able to attain dropout rates of 30% -40+% even 50%, whereas individual practitioners are able to hit 90-96% compliance. These dropout rates are especially important in the niacin trials because as early as 1957, Hoffer showed that some of those with *no initial flush* generally had the lowest response to niacin. The implications of this brings up the question: what if in competitive testing there is a simple way to wipe out the best responding 1/4 to 1/2 of generic niacin takers? Just don't encourage or instruct them enough to transition that crucial first week or two, or else use a slow, unskilled acclimation (rougher) protocol (most common in current textbooks) instead of a 1-2 week version with simple but careful instructions.

Some of the pharma's trials do things like open up with 3 grams of old time release niacin (ahem, rough stuff) that are sure to provoke complications & that won't help HDL as much either. Some statin studies seem to have a better TG/HDL population that don't favor niacin. If you view niacin results as an individual threshold followed by an almost linear dose response up to tolerance or 6 grams day, basically these 1.5-2g/day trials will do little for those that need 4 - 6 grams/day plain niacin or the equivalent extended release form (not TRNA).

Last time I looked (about the time of HATS?) I was underwhelmed by the statins' *long term* (>7-8 yrs) total mortality data, no real clear benefit, some slightly negative at P50 but not at P95. I don't want to get into a shouting match about statins, not my "thing". I simply recognize the *pervasive* influence of commercial interests can have in America (and "science") to "modify" negatives and trumpet any "good" (history shows clearly...). In the US circumstances, one could ethically offer cheapest, most convenient or best niacin solutions, and cheapest can be pretty darn good, better than "most convenient" in some important cases.

Old HATS - anytime one sees a pharma trial using tocopheryl acetate or pure/high dose beta carotene, that waves a red flag as streetwise, commercial test design hijinks.--69.178.41.55 22:54, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Buying Niacin Supplements

Someone said that the amide form does not cause flushing... does anyone know of a reputable company that sells it that way? I have GNC multivitamins for pregnant/breastfeeding persons and it contains niacin in the amide form but finding a niacin supplement that way seems much more difficult and GNC doesn't carry it. There are several forms that niacin is sold in : nicotinic acid, nicotinamide, and Inositol Nicotinate. Which form is the most easily digestable? I'm also frustrated by labels that just say niacin! I guess they're refering to nicotinic acid. What other differences are there between those three different forms of niacin? Also, I know that it's best to drink a glass of orange juice with iron supplements... what's best to take with niacin supplements?

Can Someone add the different niacin products available: Extended release only available by Rx-as Niaspan. Others are dietary supplements offered over the counter products-Immediate release and Sustained Release. Sustained Release Niacin is associated with a higher risk of hepatotoxicity. (Can someone add this and reference it please-thanks)

Prescription is immediate or sustained. Dietary supplements claim to be either immediate or sustained, plus the weak-evidence supported "flush free" inositol hexaniacinate, which does not have a prescription match. The most often cited ref for sustained relief being higher risk of hepatotoxic is McKenney JM, et al. JAMA 1994;271(9):672-677.David notMD (talk) 15:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

L. Ron Hubbard

Good old L. Ron makes a pretty healthy mention of Niacin (The "Educated" Vitamin) in his book Clear Body, Clear Mind. It apparently sunburns people in the shape of a bathing suit. Also, it has something to do with the toxins! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.230.52.162 (talk) 19:40, 21 September 2006

→ It seems to be working ok for the 9/11 rescue workers - [7] Johnalexwood 11:52, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion

Someone should add something about the difference between OTC Immediate release versus OTC Extended release--thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.113.207.158 (talk) 00:56, 29 November 2006

Other uses

The words "a synthetic indole" seem out of place. D021317c 21:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Useful links

Note: some of these sites sell products that I can't recommend!

[8]The niacin page at Doctor Yourself.

[9]The Life Extension Foundation -- search it for niacin, Abram Hoffer, nicotinic, etc.

[10]Duane Graveline's website. See also [11]his Wikipedia page.

Search for "Hoffer" in conjunction with "niacin" for plenty of references to psychiatric and circulatory connections. As for niacin's action as a vasodilator, that's beyond controversy (and so is the role of histamine in the process). Apparently there still remains some controversy over whether it's better when trying to manage blood lipids to take a form of niacin which avoids the "niacin flush" (such as time-release forms, niacinamide, inositol hexanicotinate, etc.) or one which causes "niacin saturation" and (usually) a concomitant flush. Abram Hoffer, whose experience with niacin in large doses is utterly unparalleled, seems (to me) to be saying that only pure niacin (nicotinic acid) is effective, and if I read him correctly, the flush is unavoidable. Don't confuse the lipid-altering with the psychiatric therapies. Though schizophrenia has been treated with niacinamide (avoiding the flush), it has also been suspected of increasing the incidence of depression.D021317c 22:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Niacin compoent nicotinamide and aging

If I take Naicin/ vitamin B am I taking nicotinamide? Should I avoid Niacin to live longer? The following article indicates that nicotinamide binds the sirtuin molecule to inhibit its activity.

In recent years, scientists have discovered that a family of enzymes called sirtuins can dramatically extend life in organisms as diverse as yeast, worms, and flies. They may also be able to control age-associated metabolic disorders, including obesity and type II diabetes. (http://www.wistar.org) Using the techniques of structural biology, the Wistar team demonstrated that a component(nicotinamide) of the common vitamin B3, also known as niacin, binds to a specific site on the sirtuin molecule to inhibit its activity. --Oxy49 21:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

• Recent studies have shown that niacinamide and not nicatonic acid (niacin) inhibit sirtuin activity. http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/277/47/45099#SEC2 Flush niacin: nicatonic acid does not show same problems of inhibiting sirtuins.LucidWay 15:13, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

500 decagram

In the article, it mentions a person taking 36 capsules containing 500 decagram of niacin. 36x500=18000 decagram, or 180 kg. Of course this is incorrect, please rectify.

drinks as a source of niacin

• Diet Coke Plus
• RedBull
• 5-hour Energy

some sort of advertising thrown in^

should be changed to: most energy drinks and beer (yes beer has b vitamins)

In the flush section,

it says the effects can be mediated by taking 0.3mg of aspirin. Shouldn't that be 300mg or 0.3g?

• After poking around online, some recommend taking a baby aspirin with niacin, a baby aspirin is 80-100mg

http://www.tylermedicalclinic.com/Baby%20Aspirin.htm Normal aspirin dosage is 300-1000mg (see aspirin dosage @ wiki) I agree this needs to be changed.LucidWay 15:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Nicotinic Acid and nicotinamide

I really wish that this article would cite the differences between nicotinic acid and nicotinamide. I've read some really interesting and simple articles on the internet that list the differences. Nicotinic acid helps reduce lipid levels while nicotinimide doesn't. There are several other differences... and it looks like there are some far more knowledgable people who could have written this article based on all the discussion. One more thing,what's Inositol Nicotinate? Some stores are selling this labeled as niacin. There's a difference between those 2 niacin supplements although most stores still label them both as simply niacin. What's the diffenrence with Inositol Nicotinate?

Niacinamide

Just got back from GNC. What is niacinamide? Is it related to nicotinamide?

• Nicotinamide is a niacin precursor. It is marketed as non-flush niacin, but doesn't have all of the health benefits, in fact, nicotinamide inhibits the expression of Sirt-1 a life-extension gene.LucidWay 15:02, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

If anything, it's nicotinic acid which is the precursor to niacinamide (since niacinamide is closer to the structure actually used in the body as the cofactor NAD, and is what nicotinic acid must be converted to, if it is ever to be used as the vitamin). The fact that nicotinic acid but not the form closer to the cofactor lowers cholester means this effect is not a vitamin effect. It might even be anti-vitamin effect! But nobody knows for sure. All we know is it has nothing to do with 'nutrition." At these doses, niacin is a drug. Inosotol hexanicotinate is a an ester of the sugar inositol and nicotinic acid, sythesized as a way to try to get the cholesterol-lowering effect of nicoinic acid, without the flush. As you see above, the stuff indeed does not cause a flush, but even at 1500 mg a day, there's no good evidence it lowers cholesterol, either. Right now it looks like a waste of money. SBHarris 04:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

First Line, the Treatment for Pellagra

The first line being about Niacin being a treatment for Pelagra is inappropriate. I'm sure someone took the line right out of the television show, "House" (I just watched the episode, where they say this, near word for word). Just because someone hears this on a TV show, even if it's true, does NOT mean it should be in the first sentence of an article. I'm sure that someone watched House, and typed this in here thinking that that's all Niacin did. We don't say "Vitamin D is a treatment for ricketts" do we?

I won't change it, because I'll admit that my writing skills aren't top notch, but it should be changed and moved elsewhere, significance in an article should not be dictated by a TV show. Sirhodges (talk) 22:28, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Confusion

"The terms niacin, nicotinamide, and vitamin B3 are often used interchangeably to refer to any one of this family of molecules, since they have a common biochemical activity." That statement, which I can't believe is correct, condones, promotes, and misstates sloppy speaking. It doesn't belong anywhere in the article, much less in the introduction. The simple facts are that "niacin" is synonymous with "nicotinic acid," "niacinamide" is synonymous with "nicotinamide," and that "vitamin B3" usually refers indiscriminately to either of them or to both. Nobody who understands those relationships would refer to nicotinic acid as "niacinamide"!

Incidentally, I disagree with Sirhodges's paragraph above. I know nothing about the television show, but that niacin administration is the ideal cure for niacin deficiency, which manifests itself as pellagra, is incontrovertible. It is the main use of niacin in medicine, and of the highest significance. Until recently, that was its only significance. Unfree (talk) 20:24, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure, but anybody treating pellegra (I actually once diagnosed a case in a lady who ate mostly tamales and cornflour and was on chronic renal dialysis) would certainly not torture a patient with flush-producing niacin! But would simply give them the vitamin in the form of a few hundred mg a day of niacinamide (and the rest of the B-vitamins as well, of course), until symptoms disappeared, followed by treatment at a few times recommended intake. This also worked for my patient. SBHarris 04:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Biosynthesis again

The picture with the two-step oxidation of tryptophan is total BS. At least in humans, the only enzyme that handles niacin as in- or output is Nicotinate phosphoribosyltransferase (EC 2.4.2.11). Also the reference which is stated to support the claim that the body can make 1 mg niacin out of 60 mg tryptophan itself criticizes the claim and gives counterervidence.

That means niacin is totally essential. What is semi-essential, however, is the NAD biosynthesis, as there tryptophan catabolism provides chinolinic acid as precursor which is similiar enough to niacin and nicotinamide to give a second pathway to NAD in case there's no niacin nor niacinamide. But tryptophan is essential, too, so NAD-deficiency is possible. --Ayacop (talk) 18:01, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Is Niacin really "Vitamin B3"?

I am sure I have read somewhere that, while niacin is in the B group of vitamins, it should no longer be called Vitamin B3.I do not wish to change the article though, as I am not a dietitian. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:30, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

The naming of the B-vitamins is a bone of contention between nutritionists and historians, and vitamin enthusiasts. Only vitamin B-1, B-2, B-6 and B-12 are "canonical" (accepted by everybody) B vitamins. The others are up for grabs. B-3 and B-5 are often recognized but sniffed at. However, enthusiasts in the megavitamin culture insist that even folate and biotin have B-numbers. I haven't had time to get decent athoritative references to fix this all up in the various relevent vitamin Wikis. SBHarris 04:38, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Chart suggestion for vitamins and minerals.

Chart suggestion for vitamins and minerals.

Having been in business with a herbal department, there appears to be a need for a standardized presentation of vitamins and minerals to provide handy information to the general public.

Suggestion the following graph, if someone with this ability can present it as so.

Recommend a stardaized chart. Top lines, recommended daily allowance.

Then prioritized items that provide the element, together with amount of item in each serving and a percentage of the recommended daily allowance.

Why?

Well say vitamin C. One glass of orange juice. 100%

Vitamin D. One egg, 20. 3%

At the bottom of the chart important co ingredients required, and or negative factors to absorption.

Percentage of daily allowance per serving of food is a necessity.

THis is way overcomplicated. Wikipedia is not the place to do enless food tables. We leave that up to nutritionists. SBHarris 04:39, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. I would love to find such information here, where else? I would like to know something like how many grams of niacin are available in 100g of chicken brest, liver, broccoli etc. :::--Clf99 (talk) 00:32, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I Second that. A simple table with some basic food items and their B3 content would indeed be very useful! Jahibadkaret (talk) 15:05, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Active ingredient in K-Y Intense?

Niacin is listed as an ingredient in K-Y brand Intense arousal gel. I can only speculate that it is an active ingredient. If so, should this article include this fact and niacin's role in the gel? It is probably associated with niacin flush breifly mentioned in the article.Prometheus^-X303- 01:52, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is used as an active. The flushing effect on ingestion is supposed to have a similar effect when applied to the clitoris - bringing blood flow to the clitoris, a warming sensation (Glycerine/Glycerol has this effect anyway) and possibly engorgment. Whether or not it does indded do this, is highly debateable. (Non-User:Rob) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.198.147.186 (talk) 01:43, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Side Effects

Should this section be removed? It's poorly written and not sourced. I haven't been able to find any respectable sources for substitutes for niacin in cases of allergies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrogantJerk (talk • contribs) 06:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I removed that section. Much to its detriment, the article has been taken over by nutritional enthusiasts. I just dont know enough to figure out what is notable and what is not.--Smokefoot (talk) 15:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Pharmacological uses

{{Multiple issues |unencyclopedic = January 2009 |POV = January 2009 |disputed=November 2008} } It would be great to cleanup the article by addressing open issues regarding the Niacin#Pharmacological uses section. As shown above, the dispute goes back to 2008 - since that time, new studies have been published. Can anyone state what the issues are (it wasn't clear, as comments on this talk page related to Pharmacological uses seem rather old). Thanks, --4wajzkd02 (talk) 14:45, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Bioavailibilty ... again

This is my first wiki entry: excuse it's illiteracy, the page is nice. in the: Biosynthesis and chemical synthesis, the first graphic titled "Biosynthesis: Tryptophan → kynurenine → niacin" the tryp. molecule is has two too many hydrogens or 1 too few double bonds : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Niacin_biosynthesis.svg/400px-Niacin_biosynthesis.svg.png compare with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan thanks for the article :)

--- This article is a mess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.47.83 (talk) 16:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Nixtamalization

I deleted what i think was an overexplanation of the term nixtamalization. The link to the article should be used if further information regarding that term is wanted, otherwise topic would be lost among a host of lenghty intraarticle definitions.

WonderingAngel-aesc78 (talk) 01:35, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Flushing

Deleted 3 lines explaining flushing to avoid clutter and deviation from main article. Term is already linked for its further explanation.

WonderingAngel-aesc78 (talk) 02:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Obvious Ad

I'm deleting the obvious ads for Niaspan. We'll see how long they stay off.

Echo5Joker (talk) 11:30, 11 July 2010 (CST)

Niacin as a Food Additive

Niacin appears frequently in food ingredient lists: sometimes it is probably a vitamin supplement - but other sources say it is a "color retention agent". I am having trouble finding info about its use as a color retention agent. It would be awesome if someone knowledgeable were to add a section about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.63.211.181 (talk) 04:15, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Niacin biosynthesis.svg

File:Niacin biosynthesis.svg

Biosynthesis: Tryptophan → kynurenine → niacin

I removed this image because the central chemical structure (kynurenine) is incorrect. It is missing one of the double bonds in the phenyl ring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.89.95 (talk) 00:15, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

"Niacin is referred to as vitamin B3 because ... historically been referred to as "vitamin PP" or "vitamin P-P"."

here: http://www.ajcn.org/content/4/4/313.full.pdf György refered to vitamin B2 as the antipellagra factor !????Trente7cinq (talk) 15:16, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Dietary needs

“ One recommended daily allowance of niacin is 2–12 mg/day for children, 14 mg/day for women, 16 mg/day for men, and 18 mg/day for pregnant or breast-feeding women. The upper limit for adult men and women is 35 mg/day, which is based on flushing as the critical adverse effect. ” — Niacin, dead link

Removed unsourced material Outelligent (talk) 00:33, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Maybe you can add it back, as the link #29 (Jacobson, EL (2007). "Niacin". Linus Pauling Institute. Retrieved 2008-03-31: http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/niacin/) has all the info (for both daily needs, as well as daily max). Here is the cit #29:

Is this really Vitamin B3?

I think that the first part needs revision. It says that "niacin is also known as Vitamin B3" but I have a book which says that this is no longer called Vitamin B3. It might be written on bottles and boxes that it is, but that does not make it right! Any one who knows about these things could change the opening sentence. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 16:58, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Is the upper intake limit trustable?

This link isn't a source but it references an source that seems reliable. It says 900 mg for adults. Sorry, I'm not a doctor or something. I just think the 35 mg/day is unbelievable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.98.231.58 (talk) 05:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

The link you provided got the facts wrong. It cited Australia & New Zealand gov't as authority. THIS website has those countries setting UL for niacin at 35 mg, not 900 mg. The higher number is allowed for niacinamide, which is a variant of the compound that does not cause the skin flush reaction seen with niacin. https://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/niacin David notMD (talk) 17:01, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Mild forms of Pellagra are much common

Also in developed countries mild forms of Pellagra are much common. I know this because I suffered more than 10 years from it. It took me those 10 years how to become healthy again, to find out that I need niacin! For treatment I take 2 doses with 1,5g niacin everyday, and my chronique fatigue and also my skin problems just went away. So flushing is joyful, it's like an immun reaction and makes you healthy. I would appreciate if other people who experienced mild forms of Pellagra would help to improve this article. 178.197.225.71 (talk) 11:41, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Niacin against histamine intolerance

"Some of these symptoms are generally related to niacin's role as the rate limiting cofactor in the histidine decarboxylase enzyme which converts l-histidine into histamine." - So you know now what patients suffering from histamine intolerance need. --178.197.227.26 (talk) 12:17, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Increased intestinal permeability?

Noticed this in the Deficiency section:

Patients with alcoholism typically experience increased intestinal permeability, leading to negative health outcomes.

The reference seems to be gone, and the study that was linked previously didn't imply the conclusion made in this statement. It isn't really relevant to an article on niacin deficiency, it seems like "leaky gut syndrome" propaganda. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsunami3 (talk • contribs) 23:10, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

New landmark trial

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1300955?query=featured_home

Wawot1 (talk) 23:14, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Inaccurate media reporting? - Safety of Niacin (and Laropiprant)

Just want to throw some cold water on the media stories re. Niacin that have appeared in the last few days. The reporting re Niacin has been erroneous in the popular press. CBC was the worst - it didn't once mention that the study in question dealt with a drug combination. Thw whole article just pretended the study only dealth with Niacin in isolation. This means that side effects of "Laropiprant" could easily be being mis-attributed to Niacin erroneously in the popular press.

So I just want to head things off and warn editors to be careful that the evidence is to date only conclusive in showing that a drug combination has adverse effects, and it cannot be so simply attributed to Niacin until more research is done.

Unfortunately I have been unable to find much info on side effects of laropiprant on its own.. it appears to be poorly studied in isolation. I get a lot of things like "Insufficient information available about LAROPIPRANT for xyz".

I want to point out:

• The study in question was about a drug combination: niacin AND laropiprant (see here for the study: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1300955 )
• People may be having adverse side effects because the drug laropiprant inhibits prostaglandins (similar to Aspirin and other Non Steroidal Anti Inflammatory Drugs).
• Prostaglandin inhibition increases risk of gastro-bleeds! (See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-steroidal_anti-inflammatory_drug#Gastrointestinal )
• Gastro-bleeds can definitely be life threatening (no wonder there were "adverse events"). Aspirin is, again, a nice example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin#Gastrointestinal ).

Some quotes:

• Laropiprant: "PROSTAGLANDIN INHIBITOR effect" http://216.122.144.54/cgi-bin/drugcgic/INGR?34894466+0
• "Laropiprant, a selective prostaglandin-2 receptor inhibitor... ... has been used to reduce niacin-induced flushing and recently has been used in a combination pill with extended-release niacin (ERN)." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2857616/
• "Laropiprant acts as a DP1 antagonist, reducing the vasodilation.[1]" (DP1:prostaglandin D2 receptors).. (Here in the same wiki article it mentions Aspirin acting similarly to laropiprant, and no surprise - it stops flushing AND causes gastro-bleeds too) "Taking 650 mg of aspirin 20–30 minutes prior to taking niacin has also been proven to prevent flushing in 90% of patients, presumably by suppressing prostaglandin synthesis,[8] but this medication also increases the risk of gastrointestinal bleeding,[9] though the increased risk is less than 1 percent." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laropiprant

And of course, some examples of the stories / media beatups:

• http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/niacin-cholesterol-drug-shows-completely-unacceptable-level-of-harm-1.2709671
• http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryhusten/2014/07/16/new-evidence-fuels-concerns-about-the-safety-of-niacin/

I'm not very good with wikipedia etiquette so sorry in advance if I am in error somehow.. Zarkme (talk) 10:11, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

References

References