Talk:Nicholas True, Baron True

Portrait

How is the portrait "Official" neither GOV.UK nor members.parliament.uk uses it AlexBobCharles (talk) 10:38, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 22 November 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lightoil (talk) 06:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

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Nicholas True, Baron True → Nicholas True – Unnecessary disambiguation. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:27, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Support with a comment that a great deal of these life peers don't need these titles in the article's name so my question for @Neveselbert is, will you nominate more pages if this passes? Something like Dambisa Moyo is a good candidate. Killuminator (talk) 20:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility)#RfC: Should the guideline explicitly accept Elizabeth II, Carl XVI Gustaf, etc titles? recently closed in support of the use of shorter titles where no disambiguation is needed, but I'm not entirely sure if this result necessarily extends to life peers, so I'll probably ask there assuming this passes. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 21:04, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Weak oppose - agree on principle, but this particular person is commonly known as "Lord True". See ngrams. Also from a quick Google (not the best metric, but still) I get 113k hits for "Lord True" and 59.8k for "Nicholas True" Tim O'Doherty (talk) 21:57, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Fair point, but that sounds more like an argument of moving the article to Lord True and updating the guidelines accordingly. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:03, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Hm. Means articles like Lord North and Lord Grenville would be moved too, though. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 22:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Lord Byron could be a precedent. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:09, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Nicholas, Lord True is another option, as it's the form actually used when peers are sworn in. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Those are hereditary titles so there's more ambiguity there. Killuminator (talk) 22:24, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose per WP:NCBRITPEER. Personal names are only used alone for Peers who are almost exclusively known by their personal names, and ngrams don't support that [1]. estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:12, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

So, an argument of moving the article to Lord True and updating the guidelines accordingly. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:14, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

These ngrams show results for periods that precede this person's birth. Could it be possible that the words ''lord'' and ''true'' refer to certain religious chants? You can easily find pages in a Bible that have these two words close enough to each other. Killuminator (talk) 22:27, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Probably better known as a peer. WP:NCBRITPEER works perfectly well and doesn't need messing with for the sake of it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  It clearly doesn't work perfectly well as evidenced by the David Cameron situation. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 17:16, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

  Cameron should clearly be left at David Cameron, as very clearly explained at WP:NCBRITPEER. A couple of people being apparently unable to understand something that's very simple does not mean that something doesn't work. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:42, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

  It's absurdly inconsistent. Nobody refers to Lord True as "Nicholas True, Baron True" or even "Baron True". ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 19:10, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.