Talk:Nick Dandolos

Craps section

I've moved the Craps piece to the discussion page because it flows awkardly and is not sourced. Actually most of this article is not sourced. If anyone wants to rearrange this and source it, go for it:

In addition to marathon card games, Nick also played long distance craps; tenatiously hanging in there at the table, hours and sometimes days until the game went his way, as he knew it must and he played himself out of his losses. Because Nick (unlike the vast majority of craps shooters) believed in the frequency of the '7' showing.

Digressing briefly into the game of craps helps us understand not only just how much of an individualist and truly knowleagable gambler Nick was, but also a man who was prepared to go against popular culture and habits (in craps) because of what he believed was 'right' and the most sensible logical thing to do. In this case, if the house lets you play their game, for the lowest vigorish going, you'd be crazy not to take up their offer, even if it meant initially laying out more of your own money on the table.

Nick played this way for a very simple reason - '7' is the easiest number to make for a pair of dice. It is the number around which the entire game of casino craps revolves, and Nick bet continually for this event to occur - playing the 'wrong' (or Don't Pass/Don't Come) side of the table ie. betting 'with' the casino, 'against' the shooter trying to make his Point.

Except for his reputation, this strategy certainly made Nick no friends around the table, as most players believed this kind of game jinxed the dice and brought bad luck. For them certainly. Not for Nick, whose game was one of the smartest going, with not only the lowest house percentage against the player in the casino, but the fastest action. Which was what Nick lived for. But it's a strategy which requires both the courage, and the bankroll to lay the long end of the odds - both of which Nick had in abundance until luck and the house percentage broke even him.SmartGuy 15:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow, this looks fine to me. Some mention of the "free odds" bet should be added. Nick always advised this as the "best action in the casino." Since there was no poker in a typical casino at that time and card-counting in blackjack was in its infancy, he was surely correct. Will in New Haven —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.37.144 (talk) 02:14, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The entire article is based on the self-created myth of Dandolos, and the stories of him living off casino games are simply not credible: infact, it's impossible to do so, long term. Richard Feynman did not believe it, and when he spent time with Dandolos, as mentioned by one his biographers, Dandolos admitted that he spent time at the tables in order to make side-bets with "hot" players, who didn't mind taking the worst of it against a famous gambler. In order to do that he must have had an arrangement with the house, which means that he was a shill, whose presence at the table ensured that the game was well-attended. And in order to keep doing that he had to pretend to be a high-roller, probably by using house money. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gravywheel (talk • contribs) 10:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Since the Wikipedia is the encyclopedia where anyone can edit, you're welcome to make changes to the article to improve it. Rray (talk) 13:22, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Article name change

Should this be moved to "Nick Dandalos" or should there be a redirect page from there to here? Clarityfiend 23:17, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. SmartGuy 15:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Moss match

The Wikipedia article on Moss brings the match into question and as I mentioned in the Discussion there, a bio of Dandolos completely fails to mention such a macth.--Jrm2007 (talk) 07:12, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Further to that, a newspaper report in 1953 in the pittsburg post at http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lx4NAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mGoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6118,1690932&dq=nick-the-greek&hl=en mentions that Dandolos was then broke, and working as a host/greeter/shill for casinos. Even if the match took place, it is inconceivable that he lost $2,000,000. If a match did take place, then Dandolos was surely likely just working as a shill, with house money. The story as told here is simply repeating a myth which is both internally inconsistent, and unsupported by anything except Johnny Moss' personal accountGravywheel (talk) 10:15, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

The story is consistently said to have taken place in 1949 at the Horseshoe Casino, a casino that did not exist for another few years.

Also, during the time that Binion supposedly set up the game, he was fighting off a request from Texas to have him extradited. Because of his past, Binion lost his license to run a gambling establishment in 1948 and did not regain it until April 13, 1950. He was not granted a license to open the Horseshoe Casino until December 5, 1952.

There is no account of this game, until Moss started telling the story in 1971. Since the game was supposedly a publicity stunt, how could every existing media source fail to at least note its existence??

I think Snopes.com should be asked to verify this story. It sounds like a phony.

It might be that the game took place at The Las Vegas Club in 1949. Binion was an unlisted owner there (illegally). But here, again, why no contemporary account?

2A00:23C3:E284:900:954:67F3:61B7:A910 (talk) 13:39, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Poker Info Box

What is the purpose of adding the poker info box on this entry? It doesn't seem to add anything to the article.Kanapapiki (talk) 17:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Kidnap plot

The muckraking 1964 book about Las Vegas “Green Felt Jungle” mentions Nick as present at a kidnapping/extortion attempt in post-war Vegas, leaning against the wall. I know of no other reference to this; is it accurate?

One story is: Late in 1949, the Greek lost $550,000 to Ray Ryan and thought he was cheated. He was. The Greek got his Mafia buddies to go after Ryan. The Greek was indicted for trying to kidnap Ray Ryan, and turned state's evidence. Ryan was murdered in 1978 over this old, hot score.

Now, if Nick was indicted, and turned State’s Evidence, there will be some official record. If this story is true, it belongs in the article, but it must be properly sourced first. If the story is true, is there any record of what his Mafia buddies thought of him turning state’s evidence? 2A00:23C3:E284:900:954:67F3:61B7:A910 (talk) 11:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

This from poker legend Johnny Hughes(Bluff Magazine, Europe, 1st April, 2010) Hope the date does not mean this is a joke. But if this can be verified, it could add to the article.

“In 1960, the year I saw him shilling, the Greek was still very mad about the 1949 cheating, but obviously not mad at Benny Binion or Johnny Moss, just Ray Ryan. And Marshall Caifano was a lot madder. Again, he asked for money for the Greek from Ryan, but Ryan refused. In 1963, the now famous high-roller Ryan was staying at the Desert Inn in Las Vegas. Marshall Caifano had been put on the blacklist of persons excluded from casinos in 1960, but he made a show of being seen in mob joints. The Gaming Control Board sent in an army of agents to inspect the cards and dice at Strip casinos as a warning. Califano went to Ryan's room to talk with him about getting money for Nick the Greek. When Ryan saw the Greek and Charles Delmonico in the hall, he knew they were on the snatch, meaning to kidnap him. Ryan ran out through the casino.

The FBI arrested Caifano and Nick the Greek for extortion and attempted kidnapping, but of course it didn't make the newspapers in Las Vegas. The Greek turned state's evidence and became an unindicted co-conspirator. He testified against his long-term admirer, the sadistic killer Caifano. So did Ray Ryan.

Ryan was a stubborn, vain man. He was the major developer in Palms Springs, owned a Kenyan Safari Club with his best friend, actor William Holden, that had Winston Churchill, Dwight Eisenhower, and a string of notables as members. Several mob figures, including Johnny Roselli, asked Ryan not to testify. He predicted, correctly, that the Internal Revenue Service would use the trial evidence to hound Ryan the rest of his life, and they did.

In 1964, the Greek filed a $1.5 million lawsuit against Ray Ryan for that old poker game in the fall of 1949. It was thrown out. Meanwhile, Caifano went to prison and the Greek moved to California and played the cheap $5 limit games at Gardena. He died in 1966, or Caifano might have killed him. Five years after he got out of prison, someone blew up Ray Ryan's car. Several FBI informants told the story of Marshall Caifano's long grudge against Ray Ryan and Caifano having him murdered“

Well, well, well. 213.205.240.126 (talk) 16:03, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

More on the Greek, From Johnny Hughes

“After 1949, Nick the Greek was a changed man. One night he went in to the Horseshoe, maybe 1951, and lost $200,000 on credit betting the don't pass line. Then he went across the street to the Golden Nugget, and lost $60,000 on credit. He went to all the Strip casinos and wrote markers. He went to Reno and California and the word spread. The Greek's markers and his word were never any good again. He'd get staked some for poker and dice, and lose. He put the touch on every one he saw. That's when Sid Wyman persuaded Nick the Broke to do his only interview with Collier's in 1954. It repeated the now-ironic-to-everyone-in-Las-Vegas lie that the Greek was always good for his debts. The Greek's stories there, and in Cy Rice's biography, really stop in 1949, the last year he really played high. He shilled, and hustled, and borrowed for eighteen more years. He died when he was 84 in 1966, busto.“ 213.205.240.126 (talk) 16:18, 5 May 2020 (UTC)