Talk:Nikaj

Article Transformation

I am leaving this here as a notice. I have created an article for the Mërturi tribe that is separate to this one. I intend to transform this article into one focused solely on the Nikaj. Although the two tribes are commonly grouped together, they were separate for much of history with separate origins, and this must be taken into account. I will soon move this article to 'Nikaj' and overhaul it. Botushali (talk) 11:25, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Genetics

@Botushali Modern Gashi doesn't consist of three main groups; it's the Gashi in the highlands of Gjakova that does. Even there, the Shipshani aren't part of the Gash tribe, nor do they consider themselves as Gash. Shipshan were part of the Gash bajrak but not the tribe—they were nephews of Gash (Bardh), not part of the actual tribe.

As for the idea of tribal purity based on Y-DNA or brotherhood, that's nonsense. No tribe is 100% pure in that way. The focus is on the core of the tribe, and in the case of Gashi, it's J-L283. Bardhaj, who joined in the late 18th century, are E-PH2180. You see similar examples in Kelmendi, Hoti, and Bytyqi—the main DNA forms the core of the tribe, not the newer brotherhoods.

About the TMRCA between Nikaj and Krasniqi claiming they share a common ancestor with only Luzha is outdated info from the Rrenjet publication. New WGS tests from Gashi in Llap and over 24 villages in Kosovo show that J-Y126399 is widespread, and those people can’t be lumped into the "Luzhe" brotherhood. They’re Gash, as confirmed by relations from 1634.

So, speaking genetically, it's accurate to say that Nikaj and Krasniqi share a common ancestor with the Gashi tribe, rather than stating it only pertains to Luzha. This is supported by another member from Bajcine village in Llap who underwent deep testing and was confirmed to carry J-Y252971 (Gashi mutation). Additionally, the majority of the Gashi are confirmed as J-Y126399. Meanwhile, the Bardhet mutation primarily consists of individuals from the Tropoja region. Simple as that! LGashi (talk) 16:42, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Buddy, WP:NOTFORUM. Only sourced content can go on Wikipedia articles, not our own analysis of genetic data and the like. You need to write with source precision - the paper cited in the section of the article that we are writing about does not say the Gashi tribe as a whole, so we as Wikipedia editors cannot state that.

I’m not doubting that what you’re doing is in good faith, but to say that the Gashi (as a whole) share the same ancestor is somewhat untrue. Yeah, maybe the original Gash, but not the Bardhi or Shipshani. By all means, sources refer to the Shipshani as a branch of the Gashi - I’ve never seen them described as a separate tribe.

Like I said, I respect what you’re trying to do and don’t necessarily disagree with some of the things you say, but you need to write exactly what the sources state, not what you personally think. Botushali (talk) 03:58, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Do you have difficulty understanding? Nowhere did I claim that the entire Gashi tribe shares the same paternal line; rather, it is the core of the tribe that does. There is clearly the Bardhaj brotherhood and other newcomers in Kosovo who do not share the same paternal line as the original Gashi, Nikaj, or Krasniqe. The main brotherhood of the tribe (the old Gashi), from which the Gashi was first formed and documented, represents the core and largest "brotherhood" within the Gashi. Consequently, the Bardhaj brotherhood is smaller and is primarily located in Tropoje.

Thus, when discussing genetic connections, it is accurate to state that Nikaj and Krasniqi share a common ancestor with the Gashi tribe, rather than only to Luzha, Bajcina, Carrabreg, Llausha, or other villages in Kosovo that have tested positive for J-Y126399.

Regarding the Shipshani, please provide a source that explicitly states that they are part of the Gashi tribe. LGashi (talk) 23:43, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Snide remarks are quite unnecessary.

Source precision matters - unless Lauka et al state explicitly in their paper that the Nikaj and Krasniqi share a common ancestor with the Gashi tribe rather than a member of the Gashi from Luzha, you cannot write that. It’s an important distinction, hence why the authors explicitly wrote it in the way they did.

There’s numerous sources on the main Gashi article that discuss the Shipshani as being part of the Gashi tribe. I know you’re quite familiar with that article. The burden of proof is on you to bring in sources that state the Shipshani are a separate tribe. Botushali (talk) 10:57, 14 October 2024 (UTC)