Talk:Nina Paley

NPOV

I reverted the addition of the "controversy" section because it was not NPOV and contained no citations. There has been legitimate controversy regarding the film, but if it is to be included in the article, the section must contain NPOV and attributed material. I also reverted the petition link that was attached with the section, because it wasn't referenced anywhere in the article. 71.205.206.31 (talk) 00:45, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I, too, reverted it even though it had a reference. The URL was to a non-neutral attack site published against Sita Sings the Blues rather than a neutral news piece or commentary. The controversy, such as it is, belongs at the film article and not at the biography. Binksternet (talk) 15:30, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Quilts

Whoever added the line "She also makes some quilts.[21]" , you sir are a beautiful unit, and I love you. A perfectly poetical ending to a biography. Thanks for your wit! 59.167.111.154 (talk) 13:45, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

It is irrelevant to the article unless they are famous in some way and they are not. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 15:01, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Paley library project @ U. Illinois

As of 2009, Paley is working with the University of Illinois library to digitize her earlier comic art boards and make the collection of ~350 boards and all of the Fluff strips available under a CC-SA license.([1], personal corresp.)

This might be worth a mention in the article. I've asked the library for more information about the request for help, and where the resulting collection will be online. Some of the strips may be available before the library gets full support for the scanning. +sj+ 02:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

LGBT Status

Nina Paley is in two LGBT persons categories and yet no information in the article supports that. Futhermore it is indicated in the article that she was married. Can anyone locate a source verifying that she belongs in said categories and perhaps add it to the article itself? In0eterminacy (talk) 08:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Those cats must go if not supported very strongly in the article. I'm removing them. Binksternet (talk) 16:15, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I've also just removed the category "American Jews" as there is nothing in the article about her being Jewish. LadyofShalott 06:04, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Recently she made an official statement about it, so we can recreate this category. kocio (talk) 12:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Why is she in the LGBT category at all as she has been kicked off of social platforms for attacking LGBT members? This is very confusing. THis article reads like an advertisement with no reason for existing at all. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 17:13, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

The LGBT category is not currently attached to the article. --GentlemanGhost (converse) 22:12, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

This article is being forced on Wikipedia by Binksternet, obviously an agent for Paley. Look at the revisions. It hides blatant transphobia and hate speech, calling ir "Views on Gender" when she has produced art that has nothing to do with gender and calls transgender suicides fake, transgender people fake. Where is that hateful art? Yet you are listing her quilts? Is this Etsy? Is here a quilt category? The absurdity of this whole article is pushed by an obvious agent of Nina Paley. Her film s are not viable, her art is not viable, she is a hateful and bitter person promoting anti LGBT propaganda. The article is a white washed piece of propaganda, nothing more. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 14:46, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

More about categories

I removed a few categories just now, ones that are likely true but are unsupported in the article. All categories we have to describe Paley must be supported by text in the article. Binksternet (talk) 18:35, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Of course you did as an agent of Nina Paley you have crafted it neatly to hide real facts. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 14:48, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Comic-O-Matic

Well, I don't think any professional journalists or 2nd hand sources (aside from some random blogs, including my own) have mentioned this recent project of hers yet: http://comicomatic.com/

If I updated the article to include that project, it'd be WP:OR research by virtue of me having found it directly (She's my fbook friend, cuz I'm freaking cool like that. Don't be jealous.). So, someone else has to update the "and recent work" section of the article. Yay rules.

So, does someone feel like googling around for Comic-O-Matic, citing some "research" someone did, and updating the article? :) Earthpig (talk) 04:21, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Self-promotion / Notability

I'm not sure this person meets the notability criteria. WP:SPIP Seems like self-promotion. Crasshopper (talk) 02:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Wow, really? Really?? I don't know what you are looking at but it certainly is not Google news archives where I found the following:

• "'Sita Sings the Blues' Scorned woman finds strength in folklore, music in colorful animated tale", San Francisco Chronicle, discussing Paley's life
• "'Before Sita Sang the Blues': Nina Paley show", San Francisco Chronicle, describing Paley being featured with her own show at the Cartoon Art Museum.
• "Filmmaker Nina Paley Urges a Moratorium on Baby-Making", New York magazine
• "Sita Sings Blues Creator Nominated For Indie Spirit Award", Animation World Network
• "Volunteers Log Off as Wikipedia Ages", The Wall Street Journal, with a couple of paragraphs about Paley's experience on Wikipedia
• "Former Santa Cruz cartoonist Nina Paley resurfaces with a head-turning new animated film", Santa Cruz Sentinel
• "Blogs Without the Links", The New York Times, in which Paley is described as one of 27 "Ultimate Bloggers" in a book by Sarah Boxer
• "'Sita' Singing the Distribution Blues", The Wrap by Eric Kohn
• "Nina Paley Hosts Screening, Q&A for Sita Sings the Blues", Animation World Network
• "Animated Debate Is Curtain-Raiser", The Wall Street Journal
• "Nina Paley Animation In Celebration of EFF’s 20th Anniversary", Electronic Frontier Foundation

...and I found these books at Google books:

• Finding Iris Chang, a book by Paula Kamen, with a few paragraphs about Paley
• Smartmouth, anthology of poems with a paragraph about

Paley's life

• Ultimate Blogs: Masterworks from the Wild Web, Sarah Boxer
• The Slings & Arrows Comic Guide, Frank Plowright, p. 468 biographical entry on Paley

So, yeah, I am taking down the notability template. Binksternet (talk) 03:41, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

THere are far more notable artists that are not on here ,yet you have been pushing this fringe provocateur with a frenzy. This article and Nina Paley do not belong here. Her work is pedestrian at best. Mods need to find out why Binksternet is distorting Wiki for his friend. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 14:55, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

It is eactly that, self promotion of a person of no note orchestrated by Binksternet 104.34.202.79 (talk) 14:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Why is she even on Wikipedia?

She was recently kicked off of facebook twice for transphobic comments. Her attacks on transgender have become famous. What has she done of any note that rates an article on her. and if she does shouldn't her attacks be noted ? 172.115.128.79 (talk) 00:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Just because she's a TERF doesn't mean her work isn't notable. 109.111.118.170 (talk) 13:00, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

TERF meaning Transgender Exclusionary Radical Feminist. I'm confused by this bigoted person who created a failed feature and advocates art theft as being a person of note, could you explain that to us? There are many artists who created films on their own that no one cares about. Why is this one special? 104.34.202.79 (talk) 17:09, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Apparently, you are also confused about how Wikipedia works. "I don't like so-and-so," is not a valid reason for exclusion from the encyclopedia. You should read WP:NOTABILITY if you really want to challenge the notability of this article's subject. --GentlemanGhost (converse) 22:06, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

How can you challenge what does not exist? I asked a question, you respond with a challenge. Again there are many artists who created films on their own that no one cares about. Why is this one special? 104.34.202.79 (talk) 22:58, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

NOLA1982 Disruptive Editing

NOLA1982 has jumped to reverting edits that they have no basis to revert and made this article about them bullying other editors . Nina Paley has done no work as a gender critical feminist. None. Paley is exclusively a trans exclusionary radical feminist. She discussed that in the TERFING and on the other articles sourced. . Her only discussion of gender are that she says transgender people are only the biological sex and not the gender they identify as. Her sources say that outright! She can call herself whatever she chooses. The same way she claims that transgender can but her identity is as a transgender exclusionary radical feminist. and nothing more. I urge the other editors on this article to observe the edit history . What becomes abundantly clear is NOLA1982 is running this article with no discussion whatsoever. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 19:31, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Your edit was wrong, in that it called Paley a TERF despite her writings plainly saying otherwise. She is instead critical of all gender constructs. And "TERF" is a non-neutral slur. Binksternet (talk) 22:52, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

My edit was entirely correct. Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist or TERF was a moniker created by feminists , not transgender people. It is no more a slur than "gender critical" only it is more accurate. That you see it as a slur pretty much defines your lack of neutrality. She is not critical of all genders, she is only critical of two. Men and transgender females and has not written anything on any other gender. In her writing she admits to "hating men" , not to being critical of them. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 16:53, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

"The neologism was coined by an inclusive radical feminist online space in 2008 as a way to distinguish between trans-supportive or trans-neutral radical feminists and those who wished to exclude trans women from their feminism. The progenitor of the term, the cisgender feminist Viv Smythe said, “It was meant to be a deliberately technically neutral description of an activist grouping. We wanted a way to distinguish TERFs from other RadFems with whom we engaged who were trans*-positive/neutral, because we had several years of history of engaging productively/substantively with non-TERF RadFems" 104.34.202.79 (talk) 16:59, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

References

Im sure Mr Knowles your extensive experience in sound design gives you a massive experience in gender politics. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 17:15, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

...And now you're in violation of WP:No personal attacks. It's not looking good for you here. Binksternet (talk) 17:18, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

First you believe a term created by feminists for feminists is a slur, then you reclassify transphobic statements by Nina Paley as "fighting male oppression" , then you attribute Paley's being kicked off social media , losing speaking engagements and having art shows canceled as being "Because people wrote terrible things about her". That you are as bias an editor as I have ever come across. If pointing out your advertised and public profession is a personal attack I am a monkeys uncle. That you are clueless about the subject you are writing on has nothing to do with what I've said, it is obvious in your statements and constant threats. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 17:29, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

This whole controversy is poorly-sourced and should be removed. You guys can argue about whether she's a TERF on your blogs. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:02, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

How do you mean poorly sourced? You mean like this? http://blog.ninapaley.com/2018/07/20/intolerance/#more-5500 "I was “no-platformed” in my hometown this week, because months ago and in a completely unrelated context I said “if a person has a penis he’s a man.” I stand by that statement; my views on the subject are formally articulated here. I am ashamed of venues that cave to bullies. They deleted the event page but not before these screenshots were taken.".

Or perhaps this? http://blog.ninapaley.com/2018/02/07/gender_colonialism/

"Last week I posted on fecebook “If a person has a penis he’s a man,” which led to my widespread denunciation as a “transphobe.” I’ve written about this before, and anyone paying attention should know better"

or this

"Taking in trans “refugees from masculinity” is also doubleplusgood. This is why Liberals back the modern transactivist colonization of womanhood. “Transwomen,” who I will henceforth refer to as trans-identified males, or TiMs, aren’t regarded as colonizers; they’re refugees! And womanhood isn’t even inhabited, not really. Womanhood is a “land without a people,” because women aren’t viewed as people. We’re an open space for men to define."

How would you say that was "poorly sourced" coming from Nina Paleys blog written by Nina Paley. Please feel free to explore that? 104.34.202.79 (talk) 20:05, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

WP:EW Binksternet

Submitting a a request on editor Binksternet for Edit Warring. We will let the admins determine. You are so informed. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 19:25, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

What is important here is that everyone can see the white washing of this article by an obviously bias editor/ friend of the subject aided by a bias and privileged group of academic bigots.Censoring and deleting sourced fact to create a false narrative. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 09:28, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Free culture activism but not Anti Transgender activism?

Explain why there is not a section describing Paleys anti transgender activities? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.34.202.79 (talk) 21:33, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Please cite the WP:Reliable sources you would use to support such a section. Without high quality WP:SECONDARY sources, you have no section. Binksternet (talk) 22:03, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

It is Paley's own blog.....why would you need a secondary source?

http://blog.ninapaleyDOTcom/2018/02/07/gender_colonialism/

"Last week I posted on fecebook “If a person has a penis he’s a man,” which led to my widespread denunciation as a “transphobe.” I’ve written about this before, and anyone paying attention should know better"

or this

"Taking in trans “refugees from masculinity” is also doubleplusgood. This is why Liberals back the modern transactivist colonization of womanhood. “Transwomen,” who I will henceforth refer to as trans-identified males, or TiMs, aren’t regarded as colonizers; they’re refugees! And womanhood isn’t even inhabited, not really. Womanhood is a “land without a people,” because women aren’t viewed as people. We’re an open space for men to define."

From Nina Paleys blog written by Nina Paley. Please feel free to explore that? 104.34.202.79 (talk) 11:24, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Primary sources can be used to flesh out a topic, but WP:SECONDARY sources are the foundation. If you don't have secondary sources then you don't have the basis for a section. Binksternet (talk) 14:58, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

So..... you are saying that the subject of the biography, openly stating in multiple sources , social media accounts,

http://blog.ninapaleyDOTcom/2017/03/23/the-banality-of-stupid/comment-page-1/

"My (former?) friends support changing the legal definition of sex from biology to “identity.” If a man says they “feel like a woman,” and someone like me asks, “what does that mean? How do you ‘feel like a woman’? Is ‘woman’ a feeling?” they rush to support the male and condemn me.

I have recently come out as one of those witches who refuses to say males are female; who believes females need sex-segregated spaces like women’s shelters and prisons; who believes women are entitled to say “no” to males for any reason. I have been banned from Facebook* twice and my reddit* account has been suspended permanently. Friends have sent me messages saying they can’t associate with me any longer because I’m so “hurtful” and “ignorant.” I just lost a $2,000 speaking gig with no explanation; since women like me are regularly “no-platformed” as “TERF”s, I assume it’s because of my recently exposed politics."

, selling t shirts on her website

https://teespringDOTcom/shop/respect-humanity-not-identity#pid=370&cid=6531&sid=front

....her hate of MtF transgender people , more her hate of men , you think that isn't sourcing. You don't need secondary sources when the subject is openly stating it. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 23:54, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

And why would you block the subjects site being used as a source ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.34.202.79 (talk) 23:58, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Anti Transgender activism

http://mimiandeunice.com/?fbclid=IwAR2ZSMt-5afhIQQpqzT_7yX1xAGPuFAUy308_sGX1VUkEOaQiswUyOzO3gk

Here Nina Paley draws transgender women as walking penises. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 15:27, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Laugh at the joke and get over it. Same as before, you need WP:SECONDARY sources analyzing this stuff. Binksternet (talk) 16:03, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

An editor who tells people to "get over " transphobic hate speech. Charming. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:30, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

How about in her own words https://blog.ninapaley.com/ 2603:7080:DD03:6C00:B5BF:7706:FDD4:EFC9 (talk) 17:45, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Suspicious lack of mentions of anti-trans activity

Roll up WP:NOTFORUM violations; this discussion is not focused on improving the article

I'm noticing a lot of flimsy deletions and strongarming on in this article, despite many people providing many sources supporting nina paley being known for anti-trans activity. That there is no mention of this very prominent and public aspect of her life is approaching ridiculousness. Bigwigge (talk) 06:04, 15 June 2019 (UTC) This really needs to change. Wikipedia needs to admit that Nina Paley is a TERF. The fact this is not being recognized by media outlets is troubling. 173.187.88.215 (talk) 16:51, 28 September 2019 (UTC) There's one passionate editor of this article who thinks it's "defamatory" to point out transphobia, so good luck with that. 2601:243:C601:5960:E5DD:ACB7:8C5B:40EA (talk) 21:05, 17 September 2020 (UTC) WP:RS is not an option on a WP:BLP article. If it's "not being recognized by media outlets", then that's the end of the line. WP is not allowed to lead the charge, start a trend of revealing a claimed truth, etc. DMacks (talk) 21:10, 17 September 2020 (UTC) I have added information relating to her anti-trans activity that was properly cited and as far as I can tell is both accurate and meets the bar for reliable sources. When my edits were reverted, one of the criticisms was that it was non-neutral. I have adjusted the language, but I can't see any reason the information oughtn't be there, or what about it is "poorly synthesized". So it seems to me that people ought instead to edit, rather than revert, my changes. 66.44.43.219 (talk) 09:11, 28 September 2020 (UTC) Don't even bother, this page is protected by trolls. Banning even her unbelievably transphobic drawings. This is not a "dictionary" of any sort, it is a white male opinion poll where reality does not exist . . It is white washing in the worst way. Just look at my talk page. All this to hide the truth that everyone already knows. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC) Actually there was a pretty good addition to the page in late September, adequately referenced and neutrally worded. You were blocked six times in 2019 for disruptive behavior and personal attacks, which I see you have continued in 2020. Binksternet (talk) 23:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC) Well you should know being the one that did all those blocks. Facts being "disruptive" , then I am disruptive. There were no personal attacks. You are not in any way neutral, the information was sourced and verified and you deleted it. As you can see Binksternet instantly shows up to silence anyone mentioning the subjects blatant transphobia. You will be blocked. Direct links to the persons blog where they openly state their hate for transgender people are deleted. He has done a wonderful in censoring anyone who brings it up. Real life is not like wikipedia. Wikipedia is white washing. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:01, 6 December 2020 (UTC) """""""Binksternet , I just read your "neutrally worded" addition . It was blatant letter of support downplaying the subjects open hostility towards transgender people and mentioning the support of people like Graham Linehan (who was permanently banned from Twitter for hate speech against transgender women). That as an artist that she draws transgender women as walking penises in an ongoing strip is not even mentioned. This is simple white washing. What will you do now that other people can see that? 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:16, 6 December 2020 (UTC) Just so you know that comment is sourced. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/graham-linehan-glinner-twitter-ban-suspended-account-trans-a9588721.html 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:19, 6 December 2020 (UTC) Oh and so you understand how the little white male club they run works ? Of those six blocks Binksternet mentions , four were editing my own talk page. Yes , it was gang but all Binksternet orchestrated. That is why he is here the same day, within hours of me writing on this page . Silencing while creating his narrative. No one will ever write any truth on this page. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:29, 6 December 2020 (UTC) If you have a constructive change in mind for the biography, lay it out for folks to see. You can post a WP:Request for comment and get more eyeballs on your suggestion. Any other use of this talk page is against talk page guidelines – It's just for discussions related to improving the ariticle. Binksternet (talk) 01:56, 7 December 2020 (UTC) This article is a white wash. You delete anything constructive and yet you think I would ever submit anything to you? The person who orchestrated a years worth of blocks for someone posting the truth? You must be joking. You include sanitized terms like "gender critical" in the same way Nazis would use the term "Jewish critical". Paley established an anti-transgender hate site when twitter permanently blocked her transgender hating "gender critical" crowd after abusing many ,many transgender people. And don't even bother arguing that as that was stated openly by twitter. It is called "https://neenster.org/". Where is that in the article? Oh you use Graham Linehan in your support of Paley but somehow kept out he is a seriously hateful transphobe that received a permanent ban ( only used against the worst cyberbullies) You and the editors who committed this blatant censorship of truth and fact went far beyond moderation and used it as a weapon against anyone trying to make this article accurate. You use blocking as a form of violence to silence anyone not up with your sanitizing the obvious . It is , as it stands irrelevant and factless and it reflects nothing of reality.Not worth a seconds time to read. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 08:31, 12 December 2020 (UTC) Nice job enforcing censorship of the Nina Paley talk page Wham2001. The discussion was entirely about improving the article and how that was not possible given the censorship by Blinkertein. You simply made the point contributions will be deleted unless it fits a manufactured narrative. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:25, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Lets pretend this is an actual article and not a engineered promotion piece by the subjects friends. Did she start a website solely to allow the attack transgender women? Yes. Does she draw transgender women as walking penises? Yes. Does she call herself a "TERF" (transgender exclusionary radical feminist) ? Yes. And it is just transgender women because she has never mentioned transgender men. These are not original thoughts nor promoting an agenda. Other editors can see what is being hidden and how the article is a white wash. This is all backed up by multiple sources and the subject herself. Wham2001 hiding the discussion of her open and accepted views isn't in anyway contributing anything but keeping the article inaccurate and false. Multiple editors see what is happening. If you won't complete the article in an honest manner find editors who will 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:52, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

It's just as Binksternet said, at any time you can post a request for comment to bring in new editors to take a look at the article. Personal attacks on other editors will not help your case, though. --GentlemanGhost (séance) 08:20, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

You mean the person that is currently attacking my profile, leaving threats and who attacks anyone that mentions Nina Paley's anti-transgender activities would let me request new editors? Why didn't I think of that? I can see the justice bubbling up as I write.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Linehan

Oh look, Graham Linehan , Nina Paley's hero (please note that his icon was specifically made by Nina to promote Grahams anti transgender activity) has a full wiki section on his anti transgender, but Paley does not? I dont see this editor jumping into erase that section. What does it mean? People just have to look at the reversions, look at my talk page, that tells it all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.34.202.79 (talk) 10:10, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't have a dog in this fight, my advice to you is simple: WP:CITE WP:RS which do not fail WP:BLPSPS or be gone from this talk page and this article. Tgeorgescu (talk) 23:13, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Save your advice for people who believe the fantasy there is truth here. This is a white supremacist site that enforced by bigoted white privileged men. Everything here is BS. Binksternet will delete it anyway. 104.34.202.79 (talk) 22:47, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Copyheart

Hello from France. Copyheart currently redirects to Nina Paley while the word never appears on the article. Thanks in advance for clarifying that redirection. Jonathan.renoult (talk) 19:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Certainly Copyheart should redirect to Paley's biography, unless there is enough published WP:SECONDARY material to satisfy the requirements for a standalone article about it, in which case the standalone article should be written.

Either way, some text about the concept should be added to Paley's biography. That's probably what you are looking for. Binksternet (talk) 21:11, 12 April 2022 (UTC)