Talk:Non-departmental public body

There's a discussion about international stuff started at Talk:Executive Agency. --Mereda 21:00, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merge

I've proposed that this page be merged with Quango. I don't believe they are sufficiently different things to merit separate articles, if indeed they are different at all. I don't know which title the resulting page should have - my impression is that "Quango" is more widely used and understood, but that "NDPB" is now the legal term for such a body. However, having worked in one, I suspect that "NDPB" may have been invented to avoid the negative connotations of "Quango"... and will therefore prove less lasting. Mswake 21:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

NDPBs are not "non-governmental". Whatever a "Quango" is, the term is not applicable to the subject matter of this article. It has nothing to do with legality and everything to do with logic. Wiki-Ed 16:10, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Support for proposed merge

I would like to support the merge of Quangos and NDPB's. NDPB's are widely used in central government and are quite unfamiliar to external agencies, Quangos on the other hand though popular are not widely interpreted as NDPB's outside Central Governmebt and possibly Local Government. So seperating the two will only add to the confusion already ensuing in the wider reach of this forum.

Having worked in central government for over 15 years i and other colleagues have been welcome bullseye targets for the misinterpretation of these terms. Aeferakorho 13:41 1st January 2006 (LBH).

I also support the idea of merging the two articles, but there remain quite a few inaccuracies in both articles, and confusing aspects, which would be quite a big job to correct. Is there anyone out there who can and will do that, at the point of merger? Guineveretoo 10:50, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Disagreement of proposed merger

A "quango" is specifically a non governmental organisation. The attachment of the 'q-u-a' stem was to suggest that the organisation received limited government funding or provided services that are usually operated by the state. Examples include the Red Cross and the Law Societies of several countries.

Non-Departmental Public Bodies, on the other hand are usually formed by the legislative body of the relevant country and directly responsible to the body. Their funding is subject to scrutiny by the public and Government. In relevant countries, the 'Freedom of Information Acts' also apply. In the United Kingdom, NDPB's are formed by a Statute of Parliament and are directly responsible and accountable to it.

These two sections are fundamentally different in that 'Quangos' are not operated or managed by Governments and that Non-Departmental Public Bodies are.

Londondevil 11:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Although most of what you say is correct, this bit "In the United Kingdom, NDPBs are formed by a Statute of Parliament and are directly responsible and accountable to it." is wrong. Many bodies have no statutory basis and very few are directly responsible/accountable to Parliament. They operate at arm's length from departments and most rarely have any interaction with politicians. Wiki-Ed (talk) 15:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Oxfordshire Waste Partnership

Recently a controversial decision was made to build an incinerator in Oxfordshire [1], with the decision formally taken by a body called the Oxfordshire Waste Partnership. Is this body a NDPB? It does not seem so. Is it a private corporation? Is it possibly ultra vires (not to say undemocratic) for the local authorities to delegate their powers thus to this body? I also see other 'waste partnerships' elsewhere. Could anyone shed some light? Cheers. – Kaihsu (talk) 23:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I am none the wiser after looking at the Oxfordshire Partnership website. – Kaihsu (talk) 23:59, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, it is a Local Strategic Partnership. – Kaihsu (talk) 23:51, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Would an Infobox bring improvement

There are so many UK public bodies and few articles make their legal status clear. Are they QUANGOs, NDPBs, executive agencies, publicly owned corporations or what? Would an Infobox help? It would be for UK public bodies and it would have:

• Logo
• Legal status
• Statutory basis
• Established
• [Disestablished]
• Sponsor
• Current head (often n.n.)
• ...

I'm not usually a big Infobox person but it might help these articles.Cutler (talk) 00:58, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

In fact, do we need a project?Cutler (talk) 00:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Could be tricky since the only source for that level of detail that you could have used is no longer published. Wiki-Ed (talk) 10:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

It must be possible to work it out from legislation but legislation uses difference terms. For example, s.10 of the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 says "There shall be two bodies corporate to be called the Health and Safety Commission and the Health and Safety Executive..." and "The functions of the Commission and of the Executive, and of their officers and servants, shall be performed on behalf of the Crown". NDPB, QUANGO, executive agency, ... or what? Cutler (talk) 19:55, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, I was forced to look it up in Bradley & Ewing. Looks like HSE is an executive NDPB with Crown status. Note that B&E says that nationalised industries and NHS bodies are not NDPBs. The more confusing something is, the more I think we need to make it clear in this encyclopaedia. Cutler (talk) 20:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

'''''
—
[[]]
Citation:
Offical Journal:
Made by:
Dates
Date made:
Member states notified:
Repeal date:
Other legislation
Amendments:
Related legislation:
Repealing legislation:
Status: Unknown

How about this at User:Cutler/template sandbox. Cutler (talk) 21:13, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Have I got this right? If a NDPB isn't created by the legislation as a body corporate or corporation sole then it must be an unincorporated association? That should go on the template too. Cutler (talk) 22:17, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't mean to be negative, but I think you're trying to bite off a bit more than you can chew. If you wish to create some kind of taxonomy for public bodies then I would suggest you use the defintions in the Public Bodies Directory (2006 is the last edition) as quoted in the article. As I said before, it's now out of date, but it would be better than OR into the legal status. I don't know what "Bradley and Ewing" is, but NHS bodies are classified by the government as a category of NDPB. Wiki-Ed (talk) 10:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, there is a (less detailed) 2007 edition here [2]. For any body on which an editor wants to write an article, it is possible to find out what it is, or if it's ambiguous to write about why so. Looking at the 2007 list of NDPBs, it doesn't include any NHS bodies as far as I can see. Am I being thick here? By NHS bodies I mean health authorities, special health authorities and NHS trusts.

Hang on, here it is at p6 "As at 31 March 2007, there were over 18,500 men and women appointed to the boards of 1,219 public bodies. This comprises all 827 NDPBs, 368 NHS bodies (i.e. Primary Care Trusts, NHS Trusts, Strategic Health Authorities and other NHS bodies) and 24 key, national public corporations." (emphasis added) Confirms Bradley, A.W. & Ewing, K.D. (2003). Constitutional and Administrative Law (13th ed. ed.). London: Longman. ISBN 0-582-43807-1. {{cite book}}: |edition= has extra text (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link), pp291-292. Cutler (talk) 13:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

This seems to be the taxonomy:

• Government departments
  • Ministerial
  • Non-ministerial
• Executive agencies answerable to Government departments
• National public corporations
• NHS bodies
• NDPBs:
  • Executive
  • Advisory
  • Tribunals
  • IMBs

comments?Cutler (talk) 15:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Capitals in title

This article should be Non-departmental public body. I tried to move it, but can't as there is an article under that title redirecting to here. How do I achieve this change? Mooretwin (talk) 10:45, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Fixed! This should not be capitalised (which belief seems to have come about due to the common use of the NDPB acronym) any more than public corporation or executive agency should be - it is a general term and not a proper noun. Mauls (talk) 03:01, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Is Higher Education Funding Council for England a quango?

Responsible for 7.2 billion of public money? The intro certainly seems to imply that all NDPDs fall under this term. Cheers. 89.240.176.126 (talk) 21:52, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

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Développement

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