Talk:Nonmetal/Archive 8

Archive 5

Archive 6

Archive 7

Archive 8

Discovery

The section in History called "Discovery" isn't about the discovery of "nonmetal". As the immediately following section makes clear, the concept of "nonmetal" dates from the late 1700s. In my opinion this section should be deleted. Johnjbarton (talk) 22:08, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with deletion Ldm1954 (talk) 07:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

The section title can be changed to "Discovery of nonmetals". --- Sandbh (talk) 07:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

@Johnjbarton and Ldm1954: Per MOS:SECTIONSTYLE the section title should not be changed to "Discovery of nonmetals". I attempted to do so but User:YBG reverted [1]. --- Sandbh (talk) 03:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

If I’d been watching more closely, I would have seen your note above and commented there instead of reverting. That said, I think the article would be better if this subsection title and its siblings were more uniform in length. In that respect, discovery of nonmetals was better. I don’t have an immediate idea for how to accomplish this evenness. YBG (talk) 04:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Another comment about discovery. I have been bothered by the lack of context in the statement here and in the lede While most nonmetallic elements were identified during the 18th and 19th centuries, a few were recognized much earlier. The context that is lacking includes

1. During this same era the whole idea of a chemical element was solidified, so in some sense, the discovery in antiquity of certain nonmetallic substances cannot truly be said to be the discovery of nonmetallic elements.
2. This was also the era when a great number of metallic elements were discovered, so it isn’t clear how significant this fact is about nonmetallic elements.

I suggest something along these lines:

Most nonmetallic elements (and over half of the metallic ones) were identified in the 18th and 19th centuries, an era when the modern idea of a chemical element was solidified. A few were known in much earlier.

Thoughts? YBG (talk) 05:42, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I have no significant opinion on this. The page is significantly better than it used to be, and is now clearer that it is only about the elements. It is still a WP:COATRACK and could do with more trimming; I think this is needed for it to retain a GA status let alone FA. Ldm1954 (talk) 13:22, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that gets at the point I was trying to make: "nonmetal elements" only make sense after you have so many "metal elements" that you need to classify the remainder. It is incorrect to say that say any nonmetal element was discovered before the concept of "nonmetal element" existed. The History of the nonmetal elements begins when the concept is conceived. As part of the context of origin of that concept, the existence of specific elements can be discussed as well as the reasons they were given elemental status. But the history of nonmetal elements is not the history of those elements later gathered under the classification of nonmetal. It's like claiming the European Union dates from the time of the migration out of Africa. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

I deleted the Discovery section and altered the History TOC to focus on the article topic. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

"Discovery of applicable elements" article section

@Johnjbarton: To address your concerns I've edited the content to do with the Discovery of the applicable elements, and added this section after the section now called "Taxonomical history". The lede of the "Discovery of applicable elements section" read as follows:

While the concept of a chemical element came to fruition during the 18th and 19th centuries, some elements now classified as nonmetals (or sometimes as metalloids) were known and used from as early as antiquity, even if they were not recognized as such at the time." There is now a clear separation between the "Taxonomical history" section and the following "Discovery of applicable elements" section.

I feel that this addresses your concerns re, "say[ing] any nonmetal element was discovered before the concept of "nonmetal element" existed."

How does the revised "Discovery" section now look? — Sandbh (talk) 13:06, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

I think this section is off topic and distracting. It's just a laundry list in the form of sentences. The discovery dates for individual nonmetal elements are not notable in the context of the topic. This material muddies the water, making it harder for reader to internalize the idea being described. It's chaff.

Three aspects would be notable: 1) which nonmetal elements were well understood to be elements during the time that the concept of the category was developed and 2) if a nonmetal element was discovered after the concept was in play, did the concept affect the discovery (I guess no) 3) did any later discoveries alter the concept? (I guess no). These are aspects at the interplay between the discovery of individual elements and the topic of the article. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:12, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Johnjbarton: Thanks for your considered response. I’ll take them on board and let you know how I feel. I have a few issues on the go at the moment and am not able to respond immediately. — Sandbh (talk) 11:27, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

In the meantime I have deleted the content until you can build consensus to add it. I understand your feeling about the material. Please don't add it back without consensus. Johnjbarton (talk) 16:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

@Johnjbarton: I feel that the concerns you raised about the "Discovery of applicable elements" article section have no foundation in Wikipedia policy. Here are my reasons:

1. Laundry list aspect: Wikipedia contains numerous sections with list-like content. The content of the section is no different in that regard.

2. Discovery dates: The section is organised into two subsections:

• Nonmetals discovered before the concept chemical elements and nonmetals.
• Nonmetals discovered after these concepts were established.

This organisation provides clarity and context, showing the evolution of understanding regarding nonmetals.

3. Discovery methods: The discovery dates are accompanied by the methods used, where known. This is significant as it highlights patterns, such as:

• Halogens discovered via their halides.
• Noble gases primarily extracted from air.
• Metalloids via thermal extraction.
• The variegated unclassified nonmetals via equally variegated methods.

Expecting the general reader to piece together this knowledge from 23 separate articles is impractical and non-encyclopedic. This section consolidates important information for easier comprehension.

4. Encyclopedic relevance: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which means that it represents an organised compilation of collected facts. Given the subject matter of the nonmetal article, it follows that information about the discovery of the nonmetals is relevant. Indeed, there would be nothing to write about nonmetals but for their discovery. This includes the discovery of helium off-planet, and fluorine which killed some chemists along the way, surely notable items in the consolidated history of the discovery of nonmetals.

5. Historical context: Content about the discovery of nonmetals has been part of the article since 2015. Throughout nine FAC nominations, there have been no objections or comments about its inclusion. After nearly a decade, it is unlikely that this content has suddenly become non-notable. Removing such information could be seen as knowledge censorship, which contradicts Wikipedia's principles.

For these reasons I have restored the content on the discovery of nonmetals that you deleted. If you still feel so disposed, I suggest the most appropriate course of action is to seek to obtain concensus for its removal via an RFC. — Sandbh (talk) 08:16, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

As @Johnjbarton said, the onus is on you to get concensus. Ldm1954 (talk) 08:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

@Sandbh You know I do not agree. You have gone over and over this. I am not convinced and I don't see anyone else being convinced. Factoids about elements before the concept of nonmetal elements or even the concept of chemical elements was invented is off topic and distracts the reader from the core concept. Johnjbarton (talk) 14:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

RfC on meaning of nonmetal

Is the primary use of the term nonmetal for elements in the periodic table? For details see discussions above and also at Talk:Nonmetallic compounds and elements. Editor Sandbh is arguing that this is the case, with some other additions. Editors Johnjbarton, Ldm1954 and YBG have questioned this, and both Johnjbarton and Ldm1954 have questioned the scientific accuracy. Ldm1954 (talk) 07:41, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

We should consider the state at standard conditions, so that liquid mercury is a metal, but mercury vapour is not a metal. But under high pressure most elements become metals, but that should not stop some elements being considered to be nonmetals. Some compounds are metallic, but I would not call them metals. If they have metallic lustre, conduct electric and heat then they would be metallic. Other compounds would be non-metallic. Eg sodium sulfate contains a metallic element, but is not a metal. But also would not be called a nonmetal. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 10:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Graeme Bartlett, to clarify what about TiN -- a metal; GaAs a nonmetal? If there are electrons at the Fermi energy there is always a metallic lustre. Ldm1954 (talk) 12:15, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

In my world, "metal" refer to electrical/electronic properties of materials (condensed of course). --Smokefoot (talk) 13:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Ldm1954: Titanium nitride is a ceramic conductor or electroceramic rather than a metal per se. Gallium arsenide is compound semiconductor rather than a nonmetal. --- Sandbh (talk) 05:43, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I would agree with the above TiN is metalic but not a metal. Also cementite by itself is not a metal, not called a nonmetal, but is a component of the alloy, steel which is counted as a metal. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:25, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Very minor clarification, cementite in ferrous steels (there are non-ferrous steels) is a second phase, not an alloy component. Ldm1954 (talk) 01:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

In a nutshell, nobody (I think, certainly not me) has questioned the usage of "nonmetallic elements" in the context of discussing/describing the periodic table or sometimes dopant/impurity types. However, beyond that specific usage, everyone (including chemists) uses states at the Fermi energy as the definition, as evidenced by some of the responses to this RfC. In that sense, and in most of their applications, TiN is a metal, as is cementite. Ldm1954 (talk) 01:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Ldm1954: "Everyone", eh? Unsubstantiated; nonsense not so. Wikipedia is an enyclopedia based on reliable and notable sources found in the literature, not flawed personal views. --- Sandbh (talk) 05:33, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ldm1954 and Graeme Bartlett: I understand that TiN and cementite are referred to as metallic conductors, where TiN is a nitride and cementite is a carbide. Polythiazyl, (SN)_x, is another metallic conductor. — Sandbh (talk) 12:18, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Compounds are not one thing and nothing else -- in materials science we often use Ven Diagrams or similar. TiN is all of a metal, a nitride, a ceramic, a cermet (ceramic metal) as well as a few others such as a cubic material. Similarly cementite is a carbide, a ceramic, a metal etc. Properties also are not just due to composition, microstructure can change everything. The classic intro text is Callister, William D. (1997). Materials science and engineering: an introduction (4th ed.). New York: John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 978-0-471-13459-6. Ldm1954 (talk) 13:16, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Metal starts with the colloquial usage, but "nonmetal" doesn't really have one. Nonmetallic compounds and elements says "In everyday life it would be a generic term for those materials such as plastics which are not typical metals such as the iron alloys used in bridges," but I don't think I've ever seen it used colloquially in this sense; people normally refer to the specific nonmetallic material (or class of materials). Even for e.g. microwave safety, the phrasing I usually see is "don't use metal" rather than "use nonmetal", even if the two phrases are more or less interchangeable. Of course, plural of anecdote isn't data, and it might be dialectical.

In the absence of a colloquial definition, it's down to whether any particular formal definition has general dominance over the others in popular science (i.e. the IAU definition of "planet" versus the geophysical definition), but I don't think that's the case for "nonmetal". A disambiguation page might be the best approach? Fishsicles (talk) 14:53, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Fishsicles: Tx. The notability of the term, "Nonmetallic compounds and elements" is effectively non-existent. There is no field that studies such a consolidated notion. A search of Google Books and Google Scholar for the term "Nonmetallic compounds and elements" yields a mighty three hits(!) out of c. 140 million documents/books. The notability of "Nonmetallic compounds and elements" is laughable.

The general dominion of the term Nonmetal arises from:

1. the periodic table as an icon of science;
2. the associated two great classes of metals and nonmetals; and
3. the common inclusion of a zig-zag line marking the fuzzy boundary between metals and nonmetals.

A disambiguation page, Nonmetal (disambiguation), is a commendable solution.

--- Sandbh (talk) 06:02, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sandbh, please do not misrepresent other editors, that is inappropriately. As has been said many times, the name Nonmetallic compounds and elements is a temporary one while these issues are resolved politely.

Please also be careful about the sources you quote. For instance, taken from Metal

"A metal may be a chemical element such as iron; an alloy such as stainless steel; or a molecular compound such as polymeric sulfur nitride.

In physics, a metal is generally regarded as any substance capable of conducting electricity at a temperature of absolute zero. "

Please note that (ignoring superconductors) conducting electricity at 0K is a consequence of partially occupied states at E_F, it is not a fundamental property. Ldm1954 (talk) 06:32, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ldm1954:

• Strong objection: If you have evidence that I "misquote other editors", please provide the details, or remove your statement. With regard to the word "politely", how about walking the talk, rather than making unqualified assertions?
• Irrelevance: This nonmetal talkpage is not the place to raise concerns about content in the Metal artice, an article I haven't worked on at length, for quite some time. Doing so compounds the exisiting mess initiated by the Nonmetallic compounds and elements article.
• Out of context quotes: If you have concerns about article content attibuted to me please include the accompanying supporting citations rather than doing so out of context. In this case, the citations you left out are:

1. Chiang, CK (1977). "Transport and optical properties of polythiazyl bromides: (SNBr0.4)x". Solid State Communications. 23 (9): 607–612. Bibcode:1977SSCom..23..607C. doi:10.1016/0038-1098(77)90530-0.; Greenwood, NN; Earnshaw, A (1998). Chemistry of the Elements. Oxford: Butterworth-Heinemann. p. 727. ISBN 978-0-7506-3365-9.; Mutlu, H; Theato, P (2021). "Polymers with sulfur-nitrogen bonds". In Zhang, X; Theato, P (eds.). Sulfur-Containing Polymers: From Synthesis to Functional Materials. Weinheim: Wiley-VCH. pp. 191–234 (191). ISBN 978-3-527-34670-7.
2. Yonezawa, F. (2017). Physics of Metal-Nonmetal Transitions. Amsterdam: IOS Press. p. 257. ISBN 978-1-61499-786-3. “Sir Nevill Mott (1905–1996) wrote a letter to a fellow physicist, Prof. Peter P. Edwards, in which he notes... I've thought a lot about 'What is a metal?' and I think one can only answer the question at T = 0 (the absolute zero of temperature). There a metal conducts and a nonmetal doesn't."

• The irrelevance of personal views: Your personal view of the status of conducting electricity at 0K is irrelevant, unhelpful, and out of context from the cited source. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia based on reliable sources, not personal views.

--- Sandbh (talk) 07:27, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Please be careful, and read the article on Fermi-Dirac statistics. This was one of the early successes of QM and remains key. Ldm1954 (talk) 07:59, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

As far as "misquoting other users", I would specifically note that at no point did I say the page itself was not notable; I merely took issue with one specific sentence referencing a potential colloquial usage (the phrasing "in everyday life it would", rather than "it is", to me scans as speculative) I was unfamiliar with - explicitly anecdotally.

My suggestion of a disambiguation page was regarding the posed question in this discussion - "primary use of the term nonmetal" in general - rather than a judgement on that specific page, which is entirely notable under the definition of nonmetal it is using (I.e. materials with their Fermi levels in band gaps). Fishsicles (talk) 15:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

The word "nonmetal" is context dependent. It has different technical meanings in chemistry, physics, and astronomy. In non-technical settings it classifies materials. An article on "nonmetal", if any, should reflect this usage. Johnjbarton (talk) 16:58, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Johnjbarton: The context of the Nonmetal article is set out in its hatnote:

This article is about the chemical elements. For other uses, including in astronomy, materials science, and physics, see Nonmetal (disambiguation).

The focus of the article happens to be, appropriately enough, on the conception arising from the iconic status of the periodic table. AFAIK the periodic table is these days often introduced at the primary school level. The article is about this primary topic sense.--- Sandbh (talk) 06:22, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sandbh The article should be renamed to match its content, "nonmetal (periodic table)" or "nonmetal elements". The primary topic of 'nonmetal' is not the periodic chart. Johnjbarton (talk) 14:07, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@Johnjbarton: Nope. I will say it again. We follow Wikipedia policy rather than your personal preference. How many times do I have to repeat that? I explained this in the OTOH, there are WP article title conventions section.

Here it is again:

"Now, the term "Nonmetal" is most frequently understood in the context of chemistry and the periodic table of elements. This being so, Nonmetal becomes the primary topic, as is currently the case. All other nonmetal-related articles must be disambiguated, including (where appropriate) via the use of brackets."

--- Sandbh (talk) 05:18, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Sandbh No editor agrees with you. Normal people in normal conversation do not discuss "nonmetal" as elements. I really do not understand why you are making a huge fuss over this. The article would be better with a clearer title. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:34, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Johnjbarton: Tx for staying the course. Some context and clarification follows.

The nub of the problem is the "Nonmetallic compounds and elements" article. I'm not referring to its title but rather its confusing overlap with the "Nonmetal" article and other extant articles, and its lack of notability. There is no unified concept in the literature of the notion of "Nonmetallic compounds and elements", howsoever referred to.

OTOH, in literature and scientific contexts, the term "nonmetal" primarily refers to chemical elements that lack metallic properties.

This understanding is reinforced by the iconic status of the periodic table, including the commonly seen zig-zag line marking the fuzzy boundary between metals and nonmetals. In the conceptual landscape, comparing "nonmetal" with the "nonmetallic compounds and elements" is like comparing a fully operating power station to a flat battery. The term "nonmetal" resounds abundantly due to its association with the periodic table, whereas "nonmetallic compounds and elements" does not even get out of the starting blocks.

Regarding the title of the "Nonmetal" article, from 2013 to date, 46 editors have reviewed the article in the course of one GA nomination, two peer reviews, and nine FAC nominations (attracting 11 supports). Not one of these editors raised any concern about its title.

I've been editing the article since 2013, during which time it may have been viewed approximately 1,000,000–1,500,000 times. During this period, no concerns about the article title have been raised.

In this context there is no "out of the blue" sudden renaming requirement, as if all previous editors and viewers were asleep at the wheel.

It’s also worth noting that normal people typically don't use the term "nonmetal," and certainly not in normal conversations. Wikipedia’s responsibility is rather to provide clear, accurate information based on established scientific usage.

The obvious solution is to retain the "Nonmetal" article as it stands, given the availability of sources and established usage.

To address the context-dependent nature of the term, we should use the "Nonmetal (disambiguation)" page to clearly differentiate its use in other fields, linking to relevant articles where these uses are discussed (e.g., "Metallicity" for astronomy).

The content of the "Nonmetallic compounds and elements" article should be merged into other applicable articles to avoid redundancy and confusion.

My interest here is in abiding by WP policy and respecting the primary use of the term nonmetal, which is widely recognized and used in the context of chemical elements.

You wrote that you really do not understand why I'm making a huge fuss over this. I've attempted to explain myself above.

In turn, I'm baffled that so much effort appears to be going into justifying or maintaining the concept of "nonmetallic compounds and elements" when such an omnibus concept—covering physics, metallurgy, chemistry, and astronomy—has no presence in the scientific literature. I'm also baffled as to why you seemingly feel it's appropriate to ignore WP policy in terms of aricle titles and notability.

--- Sandbh (talk) 13:05, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

While you write "Some context and clarification follows", what follows is a repeat of your previous arguments. I don't see any discussion of possible compromises that would include other points of view. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:50, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

The current RFC question/statement is not clear, please see WP:RFCOPEN.

Currently, I see Is the primary use of the term nonmetal for elements in the periodic table, but there is no question mark at the end, and this question/statement seems to be malformed. Can you please clarify? spintheer (talk) 05:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

I adjusted the RfC slightly. IMO it is important also to view the talk pages, for instance the effort by YBG to find a compromise which both Johnjbarton and Ldm1954 accepted but Sandbh rejected. Ldm1954 (talk) 06:47, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Ldm1954: Objection. Do not attribute actions to me without including the context. I rejected the compromise, and proposed an update of the Nonmetal (disambiguation) page. I further added:

"I believe this addresses previous concerns...The Nonmetal hatnote has been updated concomitantly." [2]

--- Sandbh (talk) 07:38, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

The primary use is clearly the one about electrical properties. Metallicity is a property of substances, and you cannot sensibly apply it to abstract elements (which are really classes of atoms having the same Z). What we really precisely mean when we say "aluminium is a metal" is that "at standard conditions, Al forms a metallic phase". This is implicit when we say things like "iodine becomes a metal at 160 kbar": metallicity is not an inherent property of the abstract element, but rather changes when we go through that phase change.

It's just that when it comes to teaching the periodic table to kids seeing it for the first time, people are often loose about this distinction. At that level one mostly focuses on absolutely obvious cases like alkali metals or halogens; therefore, allotropy and phase changes tend to get brushed aside, since such elements don't undergo phase changes that change metallicity until we get to temperatures and pressures outside the concern of such first courses. And since so much of the periodic table is getting skipped over, metallicity gets conflated or bundled with chemical properties common to what elements you see in a first course do. Naturally it is completely incorrect to say that all metals must form basic oxides: anyone working on heavy transition metals obviously understands this. But even though the whole periodic table is being illustrated in such elementary textbooks, nobody is giving any information about things like rhenium in them, because then they wouldn't be elementary anymore. What we have here is a lie-to-children simplification of the real definition, since you cannot explain all of this to people first seeing the periodic table without most of their heads exploding: and I think it is somewhat of a mistake to treat it as an actual, independent definition. Double sharp (talk) 08:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

As Graeme noted, "We should consider the state at standard conditions." The nonmetal article says the same thing at the top of the Definition and applicable elements section: "Unless otherwise noted, this article describes the most stable form of an element in ambient conditions." The notion of abstract elements is therefore not applicable.

On primary use, it may rather be fair to say that the term "metal" is associated with electrical properties. Maybe from as early as Stephen Gray's work in 1729, it was known that metals are good conductors of electricity. OTOH the primary use of the term nonmetal dates from Lavoisier's 1789 conception of "elements", including metals and nonmetals, which later morphed into the idea of a periodic table of elements. Of course, there are other notions of nometals, as acknowledged in the disambig hatnote at the top of the nonmetal article.

--- Sandbh (talk) 13:44, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Then why does the article start by saying that nonmetals are chemical elements that have high electronegativity? Electronegativity is a property of atoms, not simple substances. Double sharp (talk) 16:08, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

That sounds like a property that was discovered about nonmetals, rather than a definition. So it should not be the lede sentence. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 01:19, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Double sharp and Graeme Bartlett: The way the article currently starts wasn't my doing. We can thank Ldm1954, here [3], for the current shemozzle. I would've revereted that edit by now except that it forms part of a raft of ill-considered 12 June edits by Ldm1954, which I've only just finished reviewing. I'll add the results of my review to the Request for clear air during article review section. --- Sandbh (talk) 05:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Dictionary meanings

Extended content

Merriam-Webster Dictionary (2024) Defines a nonmetal as a chemical element that lacks the characteristics of a metal. Collins English Dictionary (2024) Refers to chemical elements that form negative ions, have acidic oxides, and are poor conductors. Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus (2024) Defines a nonmetal as a chemical element that is not a metal. The Chambers Dictionary (1998) States that a nonmetal is an element that is not a metal. MacMillan English Dictionary for Advanced Learners (2012) Defines nonmetals as chemical elements that are not metals, specifically mentioning that they are solids and gases and poor conductors. Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (2001) Defines nonmetals as elements like carbon or nitrogen, and mentions their inability to form simple positive ions. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition (2022) States that nonmetals lack the physical and chemical properties of metals. Oxford English Dictionary (1989) Defines nonmetals as non-metallic elements. Webster's New World College Dictionary (2014) Refers to nonmetals as elements lacking the characteristics of a metal. Oxford English Dictionary (2003) Includes non-metallic elements or substances, but this broad definition is not consistently supported by the historical quotes provided: Historical quotes set out in the Oxford English Dictionary 1857. "In Prussian blue..iron in part acts as a metal, in part acts as a non-metal, as if it replaced both the sodium and the chlorine of common salt." G. Wilson in Edinburgh Essays 340 1866. "The chlorides of the metals, like those of the non-metals, must also be divided into monochlorides." W. Odling, Lectures on Animal Chemistry 14 1871. "The number of the metals is much larger than that of the non-metals." Roscoe Elem. Chem. 6 1933. "The earliest attempts to measure the conductivity of the non-metals showed that it is about fifty times less than that of the metals." A. W. Barton, Text Book on Heat xiv. 325 1966. "One aspect of importance is the occurrence of many of the true non-metals in these two short periods." C. R. Tottle, Science of Engineering Materials i. 14 1995. "Some meteorites—‘stony-irons’—contain metal and non-metal components." Focus August 54/4 Five of six of the quotes refer to non-metal elements rather than non-metallic elements or substances.

Conclusion
A sizeable majority of dictionary definitions (close to 10 out of 10) support a primary use meaning of “nonmetal” as an element that is not a metal.

Per special:diff/1230540753: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandbh (talk • contribs) 09:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Dictionary meanings (metal)

The context for this section is that to understand nonmetals one must also understand metals.

Extended content

Merriam-Webster Dictionary (2024) Metals are opaque, fusible, ductile, typically lustrous, and good conductors of electricity and heat. They form cations by losing electrons and yield basic oxides and hydroxides. A metal is often a chemical element, as distinguished from an alloy. Collins English Dictionary (2024) Metal is defined as a hard substance such as iron, steel, gold, or lead. Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus (2024) Metals are chemical elements like iron or gold, or mixtures such as steel, that are generally hard, strong, and conduct electricity and heat. The Chambers Dictionary (1998) Metals are numerous opaque elementary substances possessing a peculiar luster, fusibility, conductivity for heat and electricity, and a readiness to form positive ions. MacMillan English Dictionary for Advanced Learners Metals are hard, usually shiny elements that exist naturally in the ground or rock, such as lead, gold, or iron. They are good conductors of heat and electricity and are used to make tools, machines, and weapons. Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary (2001) Metals are elementary substances like gold, silver, or copper, crystalline when solid, characterized by opacity, ductility, conductivity, and unique luster. They can exist in pure states or as alloys and yield positively charged ions in aqueous solutions of their salts. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition (2022) Metals are electropositive elements with shiny surfaces, good conductors of heat and electricity, and can be melted, hammered into thin sheets, or drawn into wires. They form salts with nonmetals, basic oxides with oxygen, and alloys with each other. They can also be alloys. Oxford English Dictionary (1989) Metals are substances like gold, silver, copper, iron, lead, and tin, originally defined by high specific gravity, density, fusibility, malleability, opacity, and metallic luster. The class has expanded to include substances with most but not all of these properties. Metals are a division of elements in modern chemistry. Webster's New World College Dictionary (2014) Metals are chemical elements like iron, gold, or aluminum, generally characterized by ductility, malleability, luster, and conductivity of heat and electricity. They act as cations in chemical reactions, form bases with hydroxyl radicals, and can replace hydrogen in acids to form salts. Oxford English Dictionary (2003) Metals are hard, shiny, malleable materials like gold, silver, and copper, especially used in manufacturing objects, artifacts, and utensils.

Observations
The list of meanings indicates that the primary use of the term "metal" is grounded in the general physical properties of the applicable elements and their alloys, and to a lesser extent, the chemical properties of the metallic elements (rather then a niche meaning of a metal having at least one partially occupied band at the Fermi level). These properties include being opaque, hard, shiny, good conductors of heat and electricity, and (as elements) forming positive ions. These meanings provide an accessible understanding that is applicable in everyday contexts.

Concomitantly, the term "nonmetal" is primarily used and understood as a chemical element that mostly lacks distinctive metallic properties.

These general understandings are crucial for maintaining clarity and accessibility in encyclopedic content for a wide audience. --- Sandbh (talk) 02:28, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Relevant meanings

I'm posting this for discussion, having for some time worked on it in the background. I feel it's now in a form that's suitable for further consideration.

My impression is that there are three types of relevant and distinguishable meanings associated with the term "nonmetal": 1. metal (inc. in physics); 2. nonmetal; 3. nonmetallic material. These three types seem to imply the existence of an undocumented type: 4. nonmetallic substance.

Types
1. "Metal", in the general use meaning of the term, refers to a class of elements and their alloys generally characterized by high electrical and thermal conductivity, malleability, ductility, and lustre, and their capacity, as elements, to form positive ions. This general meaning is what most people understand and use in everyday language and in many practical applications. I appreciate that "postive ions" is not what most people would understand about metals. That said, in the ten dictionaries I looked up the definition of "metal", six of them included a reference to chemical properties.

There are some niche meanings of the term metal, in physics and in astronomy, but apparently not in metallurgy (strangely enough):

a. In physics, a metal is a solid with a Fermi surface at zero temperature. Only metals conduct electricity at this temperature.

b. In astronomy, the situation is complicated:

Stellar interior specialists use 'metals' to designate any element other than hydrogen and helium, and in consequence ‘metal abundance’ implies all elements other than the first two. For spectroscopists this is very misleading, because they use the word in the chemical sense. On the other hand, photometrists, who observe combined effects of all lines (i.e. without distinguishing the different elements) often use this word 'metal abundance', in which case it may also include the effect of the hydrogen lines.

See: Jaschek C & Jaschek M 1990, The Classification of Stars, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, p. 22

c. In metallurgy, one would think there would be a generally agreed meaning or definition of a metal, but there isn’t, from what I could find.

2. "Nonmetal", in the general use meaning of the term, is a chemical element mostly lacking distinctive metallic properties.

a. In 1996, the physicist Nevill Mott said that at T = 0, a nonmetal doesn't conduct (whereas a metal does). The earliest reliable source mentioning this seems to be Davis EA 1998, Nevill Mott: Reminiscences And Appreciations, CRC Press, Boca Raton, p. 255.

b. One would think that in physics—given the widely-recognised trichotomy of metal, semiconductor, and insulator—that there would be a generally agreed meaning or definition of "non-metal" as a semiconductor or an insulator, but there isn’t from what I could find.

3. "Nonmetallic materials", in materials science, are substances in the condensed state (liquid, solid, colloidal) designed or manipulated for technological ends. Gases are generally not included here unless designed or manipulated etc. An explanation for the exclusion of gases is given by the Aims & Scope statement for Nature Materials:[4]

Nature Materials is a monthly multi-disciplinary journal aimed at bringing together cutting-edge research across the entire spectrum of materials science and engineering. Materials research is a diverse and fast-growing discipline, which has moved from a largely applied, engineering focus to a position where it has an increasing impact on other classical disciplines such as physics, chemistry and biology. Nature Materials covers all applied and fundamental aspects of the synthesis/processing, structure/composition, properties and performance of materials, where "materials" are identified as substances in the condensed states (liquid, solid, colloidal) designed or manipulated for technological ends."

So, there it is: gaseous substances are out of scope of "materials", unless they are "designed or manipulated for technological ends". The term "nonmetallic material: then becomes somewhat of an artificial distinction, rather than a properties-based one.

Eleven extracts from the literature illustrating the use of the term "nonmetallic materials" can be found here.

4. "Nonmetallic substances" are solids, liquids and gases, other than metals. Curiously, there is no unified notion of such a type in the literature, from what I could find. It includes the type 2a non-extant meaning of semiconductors and insulators; and the type 3 meaning of nonmetallic materials.

--- Sandbh (talk) 07:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)