Talk:North Potomac, Maryland/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: SounderBruce (talk · contribs) 11:13, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

Will review a bit later. SounderBruce 11:13, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks for looking at this. TwoScars (talk) 15:16, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
  • I have also been looking into elevating some CDPs and unincorporated areas up to GA standards, so I'm also watching closely here. As it stands, I think you should draw inspiration from small-town articles, even if things don't line up perfectly. A surprising amount can be extracted from small-town resources, as I saw when researching Darrington, Washington. SounderBruce 05:57, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• The flags aren't necessary, per MOS:INFOBOXFLAG
  • Already gone. TwoScars (talk) 14:09, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• I would put median income and other demographic information (besides total population) in a later paragraph, rather than being so early.
• "agricultural history" → historically rural or some other form that sounds less robotic
• "area" is overused in the lead; introducing other names would be beneficial here
• "1800s" is repeated twice in a single sentence; prefer use of 19th/20th century over 00s because of the first-decade overlap
• "get" → "have" might be a bit better here
• "good schools" is POV-ish
  • • Addressed all of these issues with a re-write of the intro.

History

• This section is extremely short. Even if this CDP was not designated until recently, surely there has to be local history that be incorporated in here.
  • Added three paragraphs and an image. TwoScars TwoScars (talk) 21:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Looks much better now.
• Merge the first two sentences, as they are presumably listing the two subdivisions that are mentioned for 1970
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 21:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• "and the ZIP Code used by the Postal Service for most of North Potomac, 20878, is also used by Gaithersburg" should be split into its own sentence, separated by a semicolon, or merged in appropriately.
  • Fixed to two sentences. TwoScars (talk) 21:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• "bordered roughly" → "roughly bordered"
  • Made switch. TwoScars (talk) 21:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• Shouldn't this belong in the Geography subsection? If it's meant to be a historic border, then a year is needed.
  • Will move. TwoScars (talk) 21:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC) Moved to Geo section. TwoScars (talk) 17:56, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Part 2

• "Today's" should be replaced by "Modern-day" or "Present-day"; mix it up for variety
  • Changed to one of each. TwoScars (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
• "first settlements started in 1688" is a little plain; I suggest "first settlements were founded in 1688"
  • Changed to "The first settlements were established in 1688,...."
• "19th Century" should not be capitalized
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
• "made it easier for farmers to get their crops to markets" is a bit plain too; I suggest "provided farmers with better access to markets"
  • Changed to "...and the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal provided farmers with better access to markets." TwoScars (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
• "became more prosperous" can be dropped
  • Changed to "By 1860, farmers were growing corn, wheat and oats." TwoScars (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
• There's a length gap between 1883 and 1970. Please expand on when/how the suburbs were developed in this region.
  • Working on it. Remember that the area was almost all farmland until the 1980s. TwoScars (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Added "Eventually, some of the farmland was sold. During the Great Depression, some farmers became eager to sell their land because of financial hardship. Wealthy individuals began buying property in the Potomac area as part of their search for land where they could ride horses and hunt. Some farms, such as the 355-acre (144 ha) Maple Spring Farm, continued well into the 20th century. Much of this farm's land was sold in the 1970s and became North Potomac's Dufief subdivision." TwoScars (talk) 22:16, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Added more about the horse farm and last farm to be developed. TwoScars (talk) 14:39, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Historic Places

• Section heading should use sentence case
  • Changed to Historic places. TwoScars (talk) 21:02, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• "over 300 years ago" - please use a specific decade or century
  • 1688. TwoScars (talk) 21:54, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• "long history" should be dropped
  • Dropped. TwoScars (talk) 14:44, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• "were the crops of choice" should also be dropped; instead, use "but later replaced by corn, wheat, and oats"
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 14:44, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Also watch your use of Oxford/serial commas. They should be consistent across the entire article.

Geography

• "beginning with 1990" should be "since 1990"
  • Changed to since 1990. TwoScars (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• The state's CDP definition is not necessarily needed here
  • Took out. TwoScars (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• Attribution for the 2010 census should be shortened to just "As of the 2010 census, North Potomac is located north..."
  • Also note the capitalization, same with "1970 Census"
    • Fixed capitalization. TwoScars (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• List which direction each of these surrounding communities are in; this could also be merged with the next sentence's border descriptions
  • An example: It is bordered to the north by Gaithersburg, which lies beyond Maryland Route 28...
  • Redone.TwoScars (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• "territory" is a bit off; would be better described as "land" or "areas"
  • Changed first "territory" to land. However, "territory" is the term the Census Bureau used. TwoScars (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• Merge the stream descriptions together without using "another" to describe one
  • Merged. TwoScars (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• GNIS number, ANSI code, and coordinates are all unnecessary cruft here
  • Moved them to the note. Without them, the figures in the InfoBox are unsourced. TwoScars (talk) 16:17, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Climate

• Define "close"; I think it would be better to just use Montgomery County or the greater Washington DC area here
  • Changed to "According to the Köppen Climate Classification system, North Potomac has a..." since I had changed sources earlier. TwoScars (talk) 16:21, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• "winters being" and "summers can be": choose whether these statements are definite or possible
  • Changed to "...with winters typically cold with moderate snowfall, while summers are usually be warm and humid." TwoScars (talk) 16:21, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Dropped the "be" that was accidentally left in between "usually" and "warm". TwoScars (talk) 20:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Demographics

• Should clarify that 2018 uses an estimate, not an official census count
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• "Latest" is already out-of-date; use "As of 2018 estimates by the U.S. Census Bureau, North Potomac has a population of..."
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• I suggest copying the data formatting from another CDP article (generated by bots), since they have far more than what is shown. The 2010 census data should be in its own subsection.
  • Borrowed from Rockville and Mountlake Terrace. Added 2010 subsection. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• The race links all redirect to the same article, so please unlink them and link "racial makeup" instead
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• The Asian sentence is awkward, especially since it implies that multiple Korean ethnic groups are significant in the CDP. I would reword it as follows: "while Asian Indians and Koreans also have a significant presence."
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• "compares favorably" is flowery; use "above average" instead
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• Don't quote Niche's count, instead just say it was out of 15,000 places
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
• Quotation marks around the statements from Money are unnecessary
  • Dropped quotation marks. TwoScars (talk) 19:37, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Government

• "Citizens of" should be dropped; a county council's boundaries are based on land with people, not individual persons
  • Fixed TwoScars (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
• Link to at-large
  • Linked TwoScars (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
• I would drop the transition sentence before the Citizen's Association, as it doesn't add anything
  • Dropped TwoScars (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
• Instead of quoting the Citizen's Association's mission statement (which is not NPOV), describe their functions
  • Fixed TwoScars (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
• Explain the Citizen's Association's definition
  • Dropped TwoScars (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
• This section could be majorly expanded by explaining who provides basic services to North Potomac, such as EMS, policing, fire protection, garbage collection, sewer maintenance, water service, electricity, etc.
  • Added police, fire, and EMS paragraph to government section. TwoScars (talk) 20:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Some of these could also be bundled into an Infrastructure section, which seems to be missing.
    • Created Utilities section under Infrastructure TwoScars (talk) 21:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Infrastruture section has Transportation, Utilities, and Healthcare. TwoScars (talk) 20:20, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Economy

• "The data based on" can be dropped
  • Dropped. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• It's better to trim the listing here to just the top 3–5 categories and using shorter sector names.
  • Trimmed and linked to the Wikipedia NAICS page for explanation of categories. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• The largest employers should also be listed here alongside the sectors, if possible
  • No list from reliable sources. Montgomery County has a list of all companies with 100 or more employees, but no location. I would have to break Wikipedia rules and conduct OR for each company, then select the largest in North Potomac -- if there are any with 100+ employees. The list does say that Shady Grove Hospital has over 1000 employees. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• No need for the Biotech quote, the next sentence makes it self-explanatory
  • Dropped that sentence. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• The commute sentence should be rebuilt from scratch to be less guidebook-like:
  • "North Potomac residents who commute further distances to work typically use Interstate 270 or the Shady Grove station on the Washington Metro system, which serves the region"
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• Link to Interstate 270, Shady Grove station, Metro, and Universities at Shady Grove on the first mention here instead of the following section
  • Fixed I-270, SG station, UatSG. TwoScars (talk) 21:50, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Fixed Metro TwoScars (talk) 21:57, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• "plus many more nearby" should be "and several others in the nearby area"
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• The footnote is not necessary and violates WP:NOTGUIDE
  • Dropped footnote. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• Exact square footage is not necessary
  • Dropped both square footages. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
• Breakdown of revenues is not necessary here, just give a total retail figure
  • Dropped non-retail figures. TwoScars (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Transportation

• Comma needed after "to Interstate 270"
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 14:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
• North Potomac is repeated quite a lot in the Highways subsection; please reduce its use
  • Fixed—now twice in Roads and highways, and twice in Public transportation. TwoScars (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
• Missing period after Darnstown Road; the footnote is also a bit unnecessary
  • Added period and dropped footnote. TwoScars (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
• The Interstate sentence is quite short and would work better with a colon to start a list
  • Added to the first Interstate sentence, adding that I-270 connnects with Washington's Capital Beltway. TwoScars (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
• Mention Ride-On outside of the footnote
  • Mentioned outside of footnote, and dropped footnote. TwoScars (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
• Individual bus routes do not need to be listed, even in the footnotes. I suggest using a system map as a better source instead of the WP:CITEOVERKILL.
  • Footnote dropped. Source is a system map, but it is the current system map that has reduced service because of the COVID-19 virus. The normal map is not available except one route at a time. TwoScars (talk) 16:35, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Education

• School address footnote is still too long
  • It is one sentence now. TwoScars (talk) 20:16, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
• Football program does not need to be mentioned
  • Dropped sentence.
• Individual elementary and middle schools do not need to be mentioned by name
  • This would also help cut down on repetitive citations to the Public Schools website
    • Dropped the elementary and middle school names and excess detail. TwoScars (talk) 20:16, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Higher education

• "unique partnership" and "enables" are advert-like
  • This whole sentence needs to be toned down.
    • Made changes. TwoScars (talk) 20:51, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
• "close" → "near" (x2)
  • Made changes. TwoScars (talk) 20:51, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
• " who can earn an associate degree or advance their education": Again, too promotional. Use "offering associate degrees and transfers to other institutions"
  • Made change. TwoScars (talk) 20:51, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Public library

• Mention who operates the library
  • Fixed (county) TwoScars (talk) 18:55, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• When did the QO library open?
  • Fixed (2000) TwoScars (talk) 18:55, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• Amenities and the bus stop are not necessary here
  • Removed TwoScars (talk) 18:55, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Recreation and wildlife

• The three sentences should be integrated into a "Parks and recreation" subheading with the Hiking trails/parks, instead of being left bare
• "on a path of 9 miles" would read better as "on a 9-mile route"
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 21:41, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
• "bikers" refers to motorcyclists, not cyclists
  • Removed sentence that mentions bikers/cyclists. (As info, The Mid-Atlantic Off-Road Enthusiasts do not use the term "cyclists". They are mountain bikers—something different from cyclists that use roads.)
• The four-point list of other parks is not well integrated and could be dropped entirely
  • Dropped bullet points and reworded. Parks are in text or footnote. TwoScars (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
• The first two sentences of the last paragraph are unnecessary
  • Dropped the sentences. TwoScars (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
• Missing period after Chesapeake and Ohio Canal National Historical Park
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 21:41, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
• "630 acres located in the Darnestown CDP on River Road" needs to be rewritten
  • Changed to: The 630-acre (250 ha) Blockhouse Point Conservation Park is also located along the Potomac River and C&O Canal. TwoScars (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
• The quote is unnecessary
  • Dropped the sentence. TwoScars (talk) 20:27, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Wildlife

• The gallery is unnecessary
  • Removed gallery. TwoScars (talk) 16:21, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• Upon second reading, I don't think this section is necessary at all. It belongs in the county article, especially since these apply to the area as a whole rather than being unique to North Potomac.
  • Removed. TwoScars (talk) 21:05, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Footnotes

• Please trim these down or try to incorporate them into the prose. The Census Bureau footnotes are particularly long and not entire necessary for a single CDP, as they should described in a general article.
  • Census Bureau footnotes were eliminated since they are duplicative, and the information can be found with the citation. TwoScars (talk) 16:46, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Most of the other footnotes have been shortened or incorporated into the prose. TwoScars (talk) 17:35, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Footnote 3 would be fairly easy to incorporate as an "According to state maps" statement

Citations

• Please add links to publishers and works/newspapers
  • Not sure what is meant here—will put Wikilinks in first occurrence of cite news template.
    • The Washington Post Wikilinked. TwoScars (talk) 15:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Washington Jewish Week Wikilinked. TwoScars (talk) 15:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Bethesda Magazine Wikilinked. TwoScars (talk) 15:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
    • Money, Inc. Wikilinked. TwoScars (talk) 15:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
    • U.S. News & World Report Wikilinked. TwoScars (talk) 15:59, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 3 (HMDB) is not a reliable source
  • Gone. TwoScars (talk) 21:54, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citations 6, 20, 64, and 65 (among others) do not need a separate publisher, since they share the same name as their respective newspapers
  • "No Man's Land", "Chabad Wins Property", "Coaches Making Quince Orchard....", and US News "Wooton" all have publisher eliminated from template. TwoScars (talk) 18:31, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 7 doesn't seem to work. Please use a more specific link
  • Fixed Census Map citation link TwoScars (talk) 18:07, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citations 8, 15, and 87 are not an appropriate uses of using Google Maps
  • Replaced mileage to DC source TwoScars (talk) 21:20, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Replaced milage source for DuFief Mill to lock TwoScars (talk) 15:28, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Replaced source for Dufief hiking trail. TwoScars (talk) 15:44, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citations 27 and 43 (Patch) are not from a reliable source
  • Removed text and citation related to Patch (North Potomac's only newspaper) for Poplar Grove Baptist Church. Replaced Patch in Demographics section (last sentence) with Money Inc. in citation. TwoScars (talk) 19:13, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 33 (Natural Atlas) is not from a reliable source
  • Replaced with WaPost article already used elsewhere. TwoScars (talk) 18:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 35 needs to use {{cite gnis}} and does not need a footnote
  • Changed to use cite gnis and dropped footnote. TwoScars (talk) 20:41, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 36 (Climtae-Data) is not from a reliable source
  • Replaced source. TwoScars (talk) 19:47, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 44 should use {{cite map}}
  • Replaced cite web with cite map. TwoScars (talk) 20:09, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
• Far too many primary sources linking to the county government's website. Using local newspapers would be more appropriate here.
  • There are no local print newspapers for North Potomac. The North Potomac - Darnestown Patch is "run by professional editors and salespeople", and it appears to be all on-line—that's it. The entire DC region reads the Washington Post and a few get the Wall Street Journal. There is also no local government other than the county. TwoScars (talk) 22:04, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Part 2

• Citation 16 has the work and publisher switched around
  • Fixed Office of Tourism citation. TwoScars (talk) 16:49, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 80: Facebook pages are never a reliable source
  • Changed to Potomac Horse Center's web page. Could use county parks web page if necessary. TwoScars (talk) 16:46, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
• Citation 89's publisher is in all caps
  • Fixed. TwoScars (talk) 16:46, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

General comments

• As mentioned above, this article is lacking an Infrastructure section. I would move the transportation information into it as a subheading and also include subsections for Healthcare and Utilities (per the WP:USCITIES guide).
  • Created Infrastructure section, moved transportation into it, added Utilities and Healthcare. TwoScars (talk) 20:58, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• No mention of public artwork, private arts organizations, or other culture? Surely there has to be something for the area.
  • Not in North Potomac—only wildlife, parks, and trails—no museums (Travilah has one). Will search for museums nearby later. Hard to compete with Washington DC. TwoScars (talk) 20:58, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Closest museums, and a music and arts center, are listed in the new Arts section under Culture. TwoScars (talk) 20:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I'll be back with more comments for the Historic places sections a bit later, but I will place this on hold for now. SounderBruce 09:45, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Also, the active peer review request should be closed. I don't believe that articles are allowed to be at PR and GAN at the same time, but can't find the specific rule at this time. SounderBruce 09:46, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Reading through now, the only real comment left is that the image captions are quite lacking. Other than that, I only have a few comments left for the Historic places section that I will post a bit later. SounderBruce 06:49, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

I added to the captions. The Historic places section was fun for me to research, and I learned a lot. However, if you think it is too much history, I could make "Historic places" a subsection and have only two paragraphs with only one image. The DuFief Mill was pretty important, but the other sites are interesting but not necessarily essential to North Potomac—maybe one paragraph for DuFief and one paragraph for the other 3 sites. TwoScars (talk) 19:42, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

@TwoScars: Your proposal for a shortened Historic places section would put this over the line. I think we can have this review wrapped up as soon as you do that. SounderBruce 07:23, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Made change to shortened Historic places. TwoScars (talk) 15:26, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: Any other thoughts? Don't hesitate to say something needs changed—I plan to use North Potomac as a pattern for two other Maryland CDPs. TwoScars (talk) 20:30, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

I went through and copyedited the Historic places section. I do not see any other issues with the article, so I'm happy to finally pass this one. Sorry about the long time spent with this one! SounderBruce 05:53, 25 June 2020 (UTC)