Talk:Nothing Broken but My Heart
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Requested move
edit- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 06:27, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
Nothing Broken But My Heart → Nothing Broken but My Heart – "but" is a both a coordinating conjunction and a preposition, and WP:NCCAPS discourages capitalizing coordinating conjunctions and prepositions of four letters or less, like "but". In this case, the title of the song treats "but" like a preposition, and "but" has just three letters. However, the cover art of the Celine Dion song capitalized it into "But". Also, unlike dot the i, the current title is not unique and has no reason to be unique. Sources do not mention why "but" is capitalized. Shall we apply the guideline to the song, or shall "common sense" overcome the guideline? Speaking of common sense, I wonder if capitalizing "but" matters to the masses, especially when English is dumbed down nowadays. Edit: I didn't realize that "but" is also an adverb. Nevertheless, the title doesn't treat it as an adverb, so "but" shall not be treated as an adverb. George Ho (talk) 16:41, 12 September 2014 (UTC)
- Which are you saying is common sense, User: George Ho?--Yaksar (let's chat) 07:38, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Elaborate? "Common sense" is a judgment based on common knowledge. Well, I hope I'm right. "But" should have been treated as an adverb; instead, "but" should not be capitalize. However, I wonder if people know how to treat "but" nowadays; is it common knowledge? --George Ho (talk) 07:42, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Well, when I said "common sense", I meant that people would rather treat capitalization/decapitalization of "but" as irrelevant. Isn't that right or a wrong generalization? --George Ho (talk) 07:44, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know. Some would probably argue that using the song's official name would be more sensible that applying outside grammatical rules to a composition title. But I don't know if that classifies anything as common sense.--Yaksar (let's chat) 07:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Common sense aside, ready to vote then? --George Ho (talk) 09:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Eh, I'd like to do some more research into sourcing first, but if I had to !vote now I would probably go on the "common sense" side and oppose the move, since her official page and the Billboard chart use the capital.--Yaksar (let's chat) 09:52, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- I'll treat your vote as unofficial then. --George Ho (talk) 10:30, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Please feel free to do so. Just remember, however, that these sorts of discussions are not technically votes in truth, more of a discussion aiming to get a sense of consensus.--Yaksar (let's chat) 15:53, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- I'll treat your vote as unofficial then. --George Ho (talk) 10:30, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Eh, I'd like to do some more research into sourcing first, but if I had to !vote now I would probably go on the "common sense" side and oppose the move, since her official page and the Billboard chart use the capital.--Yaksar (let's chat) 09:52, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Common sense aside, ready to vote then? --George Ho (talk) 09:07, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know. Some would probably argue that using the song's official name would be more sensible that applying outside grammatical rules to a composition title. But I don't know if that classifies anything as common sense.--Yaksar (let's chat) 07:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
- Reminder: "but" debate is a minor thing, no big deal after all. However, I shall not treat sources as reliable just because many use one title or another. We must stick to strongly applicable rules instead of disregarding them all. Is WP:NCCAPS consistent or inconsistent with WP:AT? --George Ho (talk) 05:36, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
- True, Yaksar. Most sources use But (in uppercase), but they do not explain reasons for using But. Sun Journal uses the title in ALL-CAPS; so did the 1992 Billboard print magazine. One book and Vibe magazine use but instead; I guess but is seldom used. If WP:NCCAPS is too weak here, will MOS:CT change your mind? --George Ho (talk) 20:41, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
- Support. The current unusual title case appears to have no significance. Wikipedia has a house style, and articles shouldn't copy unimportant external styling. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:50, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
- Support – Per SmokeyJoe, we should follow MOS:CT unless there is some strong justification for an exception. We have a house style, and we should simply apply it. I'm not much of a grammar expert, but my understanding is that MOS:CT recommends a lowercase 'but' here. —BarrelProof (talk) 16:48, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.