Talk:Novo Brdo

Removal of content without an explanation

I wish to flag a recent edit I made that has subsequently been reverted. The paragraph in question discusses the presence of Albanian Catholic clergy twice in one paragraph, this only needs to be stated once as both statements are a repetition of each other. The names could possibly go under notable people, however I do not see any notoriety amongst the names. I was told to "Readd (sic) Madgearu" to which I have and the statement that "Albanians had arrived in Novo Brdo during this time period to work on the mines" is clearly stated in the book. ElderZamzam (talk) 21:38, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

No, there is no "repetition" in the text. Read it again until you see the difference. Ktrimi991 (talk) 23:12, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi @ElderZamzam and @Ktrimi991, hope you’re well. I just want to ask what exactly is meant by the phrase “settled in Novo Brdo during the 13th to 14th century”? The reason I ask is because Novo Brdo was mentioned with its present name in historical documents as early as 1326, according to the article (although I don’t see a source, so this could be incorrect). On top of that, we have the following piece of information sourced to Rădvan: The arrival of German miners allowed the emergence of mining towns in the Balkans in the 13th and 14th century, among them Novo Brdo.

The point I’m trying to make here is that the information isn’t really tying up together on the article. Did Albanians settle the town itself, or the region in general? Did they contribute to the establishment of the town alongside the Saxon miners considering Rădvan’s statement, which suggests that Novo Brdo emerged in the 13th and 14th centuries?

I think the term “migration” in this case may refer to the town itself, which seems to have been established by Saxon miners (according to the article), rather than the Albanians being newcomers to Kosovo, which should be made explicitly clear IMO. Personally, I’d say this migration was more from Albanians in surrounding rural areas settling and contributing to an important and growing town, which is what the sources thus far would seem to suggest. I suppose if there were sources we could find that talk about when exactly the town was founded and maybe even more on when the different ethnic groups (Albanians, Saxons, Serbs, Bulgarians, Jews) settled in the town, this editing dispute can be put to rest? Botushali (talk) 10:07, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Ducellier says that Albanians from Tivar/Bar, northern Albania etc settled Novo Brdo, "thus reinforcing the Albanian population in Kosovo". The latter part makes it clear that Albanians in general were not newcomers in Kosovo, hence I added it to the article. Ktrimi991 (talk) 10:15, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Great - solid addition. Botushali (talk) 10:33, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Greetings @Botushali and welcome to this discussion. I appreciate you acting as a mediator. Ktrimi991 added the term "settled" so they will have to comment on that choice of word. The two sources are limited on content and create unambiguity. In the book The Byzantine Economy by Laiou and Morrisson (2007), they mention that the mines were predominately manned by Saxons. In the book The Serbs by Cirkovic (2008), they mention that Novo Brdo existed as an autonomous city run by the Saxons with little oversight and based off of those readings, was a Catholic dominated city (however this isn't explicitly stated). I haven't found any sources to date which note when the city was exactly founded, however I have found some articles on Saxon migration. I will keep looking. I do not deny that Albanians were already in Kosovo before these migrations, my reservations are with the fact that they formed Novo Brdo when in fact it appears Novo Brdo started off as a mining community by Saxons which is what you have already stated Botushali. ElderZamzam (talk) 10:37, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough - the sources and content you mentioned above regarding the Saxons would be nice to add to the article if you have time! Saxon history in the region is pretty interesting. I don't think any of the sources (or Ktrimi for that matter) have claimed that Albanians founded the city - I think it's pretty obvious it was the Saxons that built the foundations of a mining town, so maybe those sources you mentioned would help clear things up. Nonetheless, it would seem that the large-scale settlement of other peoples - Albanian and Slav alike - aided in establishing Novo Brdo as a major town early on in its existence. I like the way the article is now [1], but some more info on the Saxons would be great. Botushali (talk) 10:44, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, it is a very rich history. It is a miracle that the Saxon church of St. Peter's Basilica Church, Stari Trg is still standing. Agreed then, the page now can be status quo and I will add some info on Saxon movements. Cheers. ElderZamzam (talk) 10:48, 4 April 2024 (UTC)