Talk:Nuclear weapons of the United Kingdom/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Nick-D (talk · contribs) 01:16, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Comments

It's great to see the article on this important topic at GAN. Due to its (justified) size, it might take me a few days to finish the review. Here are my comments:

• "and is one of the five nuclear-weapon states under the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons" - perhaps broaden this to note that it's one of however many countries now have nuclear weapons?
• The lead is focused on British nuclear weapons programs: I'd suggest thinning this out a bit, and adding more on why the British Government has retained nuclear weapons and the underlying doctrine. The controversies around this could also be acknowledged.
• I'd suggest that the "Resumption of independent UK efforts" be broadened to note the reason the British Government decided to re-launch the nuclear weapons program by moving some of the material in the "An independent deterrent" section up. Was this focused specifically on the Soviet Union, or was it part of the efforts to maintain the UK's status as a great power? (or both?)
• "Operation Hurricane was detonated in the frigate HMS Plym" - should this be something like "During Operation Hurricane an atomic bomb was detonated in the frigate HMS Plym"?
• "When the US withdrew its theatre nuclear weapons from Europe, the British government followed suit" - I note this is referenced to a 1987 work, which I suspect pre-dates the withdrawal of the nuclear weapons.
• "The deployment of ships carrying nuclear weapons caused embarrassment during the Falklands War" - I might be wrong, but I think that this wasn't publicly known at the time. It did complicate British operations in the Falklands, as the warheads had to be moved out of frigates and destroyers into aircraft carriers, and then from the carriers to a ammunition ship which sailed them back to the UK. A fair chunk of the RN's nuclear stockpile was also effectively on the wrong side of the world for several months.
• I'd suggest broadening the 'Nuclear tests' section to note the human cost of the tests (the dispossession of the residents of the test ranges in Australia and Christmas Island, the the health affects on those exposed to the above-ground tests).
• While the 'Nuclear defence' section is adequate for GA, I'd suggest expanding this for A-class and higher. The British civil defence program was patchy, but ambitious, and included the construction of command bunkers across the country, evacuation plans for the Queen and sophisticated planning for how the UK would be run after being attacked by nuclear weapons (which included splitting the country between teams of ministers, who would effectively operate as independent governments). Peter Hennessy's book The Secret State covers this in detail, and the U section of the ANU's Chifley Library has quite a few works from the 1980s which go into detail.

Thanks for undertaking to review this. I realise that these top-level articles are hard to review. Each subsection has its own articles, and only a summary is presented here. Take as long as you like to review, but I have to go away at the end of the week, and while I'll still be able to edit, won't have access to my books. If necessary, we can shelf the review at that point.

1. The lead covers the article. I did consider splitting the History section off into its own article. I'll probably put the article up for Peer Review next.
2. I've added a summary of why Britain retains nuclear weapons to the lead: The possession of nuclear weapons is an important component of Britain's national identity.
3. The British government (well, the Cabinet) (well, the GEN.75 Cabinet Subcommittee) resolved to develop nuclear weapons before the Soviet Union was identified as a potential adversary. The key point is Britain's great power status. I thought the quote summed things up fairly well.
4. The 1987 reference is to the Falklands War. Moved it back one sentence. It's interesting to note that this was known in 1987, but there was fuss about it in 2003. "Embarrassment" is the word Grove used; I have have changed it to your word, "complications".
5. I have access to the Chifley library, and can borrow books for up to six months as a staff member. Several were borrowed for this article, including Campbell. Can't spot the book you're referring to in the catalogue though.

   I was thinking of books like these (I think there are some others). Hennessy's is much more recent and likely to be more comprehensive though, but from memory the British media covered his main revelations. Nick-D (talk) 08:48, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 04:56, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Further comments

• The 'Anti-nuclear movement' and 'End of cross-party support' sections are more than fine for GA, but as the article is further developed I'd suggest adding material explaining the factors which drive opposition to nuclear weapons in the UK. The results of public polling on the issue would also be useful.

  I'd have to do some more research on this - I hadn't really been too interested in it. I expanded the section in this article on the CND. It seems that the whole ant-nuclear movement took off in the UK in the late 1950s, with the publication of reports on the dangers posed by atmospheric testing. I'm not sure why this struck such a chord in the UK. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:32, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

• I'd suggest noting the extreme vulnerability of the UK to nuclear weapons somewhere as the article is further developed (this would include the 3 minute warning period for attacks from the USSR/Russia and, from memory, UK Government assessments in the 1960s which judged that 10 hydrogen bombs could effectively destroy the country): these at least partly explain why the British have quite different arrangements for the command and control of their nuclear forces than the other nuclear powers, given that it's entirely realistic for the entire command chain to be killed. Nick-D (talk) 11:24, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

  I remember reading the 10 hydrogen bombs figure somewhere. Reading through Campbell, they actually did quite a good job. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:32, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

@Nick-D: I am back now. When=re is this at. What still needs to be done? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I think that this is done. Sorry, I probably should have closed this ages ago. Nick-D (talk) 03:20, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Assessment

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. All in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines:

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail: