Talk:Nude recreation

A note

I'm usually a happy-go-lucky "Wikipedia is not censored" kind of girl, but I did just remove an image of dubious copyright, recently uploaded by a new user, of two young boys engaging in a game of nude darts. I'm not sure it added anything to the article and I deleted the image because of it's copyright issues. Cheers. Dina 18:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Febraury 2008

I do not see the relevance of this article since it overlaps mightily with nudity, naturism, nude hiking, nudity in sports and so on. Gardenparty (talk) 10:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

sports does not equal recreation of course. Perhaps the sports page and recreation page could be combined. I would keep the hiking page separate for the time being to see if it can develop further. User:Dandelion (talk|contribs) 00:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dandelion1 (talk • contribs)

December 2012

I have looked for content here and not found anything that is not covered elsewhere. I have looked for valid inline references and found multiple reference to one blog- and then paragraphs that are void of references. It is four years since Dandelion1 (talk) penned the paragraph above- is there anything that needs rescuing? Shall I start by removing all the unsupported text- and that supported by the blog?--ClemRutter (talk) 23:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

I have been very patient- but after 5 years, nothing. I have thus removed all the unsupported text and added half the remaining references. --ClemRutter (talk) 19:03, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Images are good, but this seems a bit excessive

I like having a well illustrated article, but I think this could use a bit of restraint. I tried to at least reorganize some of the images so that they're not pushing each other out of their respective sections. I've also removed the bit about passive recreation, as it seemed so painfully obvious that it's not worth explaining ("Yes, you too, can watch TV naked!"). This left even less room for images, but that's not really a valid reason to expand the article. Grayfell (talk) 07:49, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Recent edits

I recently merged the naked hiking and clothing-optional bike ride articles into this one. Each article was quite brief and fits comfortably into this one in terms of subject matter. SunCrow (talk) 22:49, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

A potential link

After watching all the recent improvements, and seeing the additional opportunities I was considering if we should have a link, or a subsection on Adolescent Sexting. The literature generated by the Google search 'sexting as a form of nude recreation' is rich, and it reminds me of searches for 'Naturist beaches' made 20 years ago- everything being related to it being a social problem. With 19% of US teenagers involved it appears mainstream in the 18- 24 age group. --ClemRutter (talk) 08:50, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

What? What are you talking about? —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 09:50, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

ClemRutter, while the name of this page is quite general (nude recreation), the page currently deals with non-sexual recreational activities. Sex and related activities like sexting could certainly be considered recreational, but I think it's best if they are addressed on other pages and the scope of this page stays limited to non-sexual activities. SunCrow (talk) 19:40, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

The topic is limited not by sexual content, but by social activity in real life, not online; "sexting as a form of nude recreation" (with quotes) yields no google results, its not a thing.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Merge with Nudity in sport

If the definition of sport is "a competitive physical activity" then almost all of the content in Nudity in sport should be moved to Nude recreation if its not already there. If nudists keep score playing tennis or volleyball occasionally, its still recreation, not sports. Only the ancient Greeks had organized completions nude, which is mentioned in Ancient Olympics. --WriterArtistDC (talk) 23:25, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I find this argument less than coherent, but I support the merger of this article with Nudity in sport. Sport is recreation whether someone keeps score or not. —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 23:59, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Done. SunCrow (talk) 14:46, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Nude volleyball

WriterArtistDC, I noticed that you moved the nude volleyball section out of the section on sports. Even if we agree on your definition of sport (a competitive physical activity), volleyball is a sport even if no one keeps score so long as each side is trying to win the point. So I believe it belongs in the same section with the other sports. Do you see it differently? SunCrow (talk) 19:43, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

I was mostly concerned with grouping activities together that take place at private nudist clubs. Sport/recreation has no shape line, keeping score is not the essential difference for me. Is it done mainly for pleasure, or displaying/increasing skill? If the latter, its a sport.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:07, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

I think I have to agree with SunCrow. If you look up Volleyball, the first sentence of the content begins "Volleyball is a team sport..." Readers looking for "volleyball" in this article would expect to find it under "sport", I would think. Any sport can be done both for pleasure and for displaying or increasing skill, so WriterArtistDC's distinction would split them all down the middle. And the "volleyball" section here mentions tournaments, which would fall on the "displaying skill" side of the line. —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 22:58, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, WriterArtistDC and VeryRarelyStable. How would it be if we moved the volleyball info back under sports and briefly mentioned volleyball in the section on nudist clubs? SunCrow (talk) 23:05, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that seems to be the consensus.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 00:59, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Done. SunCrow (talk) 01:15, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Nudes-A-Poppin'

I restored the content as something that occurs at a nudist resort. I don't know the details but "erotic" does not disqualify it as recreation for me, since beauty pageants and dance competitions are standard nude resort events, and I doubt that there is a 5,000 attendee open-air event in Indiana which is pornographic. Nothing was said about limiting the topic to non-sexual recreation. The Folsom Street Fair is also erotic.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:34, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

WriterArtistDC, you are right that nothing on the page limits the topic to non-sexual recreation. What, exactly, does "nude recreation" entail? To me, the definition in the current lede section ("recreational activities which some people engage in while nude") is a bit vague and not especially helpful. (Your comment above--"something that occurs at a nudist resort"--hinted at another potential definition.) If we go with the current definition, it could encompass a variety of erotic recreational activities; however, the article doesn't currently include information on those types of activities, so the definition doesn't fit the article. I guess my question is: Should we add information on sexually oriented recreation to the article? Or should we define nude recreation more narrowly than the article currently does? SunCrow (talk) 23:22, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps I have been making an exception for this case because a naturist resort is allowing their facilities to be used for an event which includes performers from the for-profit sex industry and a mostly clothed audience. The criteria for inclusion in this article could be that it is not for profit? The audience, if there is one, is also naked? (We want to exclude wet t-shirt contests.) --WriterArtistDC (talk) 01:59, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Section not meaningful?

SunCrow,VeryRarelyStable: I created the section "Clothing optional public events" to differentiate them from events at private naturist venues, but now all the content except the Museum tours has been moved. Why would dining and bungee jumping not be included? (Perhaps even hiking and cycling since they are self-described as recreational, not sports.)

Also, there are many activities related to water that are otherwise distinct. Nude beaches needs a top-level section, while Nude swimming could remain under Sports; and there should be a section on Saunas, spas, and hot springs, since they are semi-public.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 17:53, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

WriterArtistDC, if we need a section on events at all (which I'm not sure we do), we might just make an events section that would include both public and private nude events.

Public/private is a significant distinction based upon the content of the main article on Nudity. It makes a difference whether the activity is done "in public", which means non-naturists are not excluded, or only occurs in private naturist spaces. It says something about the acceptance afforded these activities by the mainstream society vs. the naturist subculture.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 00:45, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Also, I see a distinction between events and activities. Things like nude dining and nude bungee jumping are activities, so they don't belong in an events section. On the other hand, if there were an event like a World Clothing-Optional Dining Day or a World Clothing-Optional Bungee Jumping Day, that would belong in an events section. Does that work for you? SunCrow (talk) 21:42, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps I am making a different distinction. A recreational activity is something established within a culture as an ongoing social practice. In some counties pool swimming, saunas, hot-springs, and going to a beach have achieved this status either generally or have been allocated designated "clothing optional" areas in public space. Wilderness hiking may also generally accept nakedness, but no one talks about it. Some things never "catch on" to become social practices, remaining special events, the example being nude dining. (The single location for nude bungee jumping in New Zealand makes me suspect this is another example.) Some events may be held annually (bike rides, rugby matches, nude runs, bungee jumping for charity) but have not achieved the social acceptance to be activities. (A section on Annual events?). Within a naturist space, all recreation is done naked. Why limit the list to volleyball? Naked dining, dancing, and charades. Naked chess games. Naked shuffleboard. Naked sack races...

--WriterArtistDC (talk) 00:45, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

WriterArtistDC, I have no objection to anything you said in the second paragraph of your post from earlier today. SunCrow (talk) 21:43, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Are you referring to water activities being divided into three subtopics?--WriterArtistDC (talk) 00:45, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes. SunCrow (talk) 04:48, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

WriterArtistDC,VeryRarelyStable: I think that the Nudes-A-Poppin' subsection should be placed within the Naturist/Nudist recreation section. I also think the nude hiking and nudity at festivals subsections should be placed within the Clothing optional recreation section. Thoughts? SunCrow (talk) 06:01, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Dividing up content is difficult when there are no sharp criteria for categorization. I propose major categories based upon private land for members or long-term guests (Nudist/Naturist) vs quasi-public (ticketed events, festivals) vs public (clothing optional, access not limited).

However, does the Ponderosa club become quasi-public one weekend each year to host Nudes-A-Poppin' and is a private resort otherwise? Since it is not really a festival either, I think it should remain by itself. It is unique, apparently having begun as an amateur contest, it is now an open-air strip club. I did not know anything about it before doing research. Its an interesting example of mainstream culture co-oping the alternative culture, and the owner allowing it.

Some activities are clearly public, such as hiking and surfing, but others my occur in any venue, such as volleyball, mentioned in two places. Beaches may also be within resorts or public. --WriterArtistDC (talk) 18:40, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

No controversy, so I moved hiking.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 20:40, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Another option

Perhaps there is a simpler solution; the section for Naturist recreation (private) and another for Clothing optional recreation (public). Clothing optional could be divided into ongoing (beaches, hiking), annual (bike rides, rugby games) and occasional events (dining, bungee jumps, museum tours).

Interestingly, the Webster's definition of recreation includes sport as a subset, not a separate category; sport is any recreation that involves physical activity. The real distinction appears to be between whether something is done purely for pleasure vs. reward, accomplishment, etc; in which case I see no examples of nudity in sports other than ancient Greece and traditional cultures. But perhaps there are nude volleyball players who live for the game.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 02:08, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Bicycling

The naked bike rides are self-described as social, artistic and political, so the content never belonged in "Sports". Also, there are two other articles about the two largest rides, so there was no need for all the same detail in this article.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 00:48, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Inappropriate redirects

Nudist club, nudist resort, and nudist colony all redirect here, and yet the article barely mentions them in passing. (Pun noted, incidental to point.)

Meanwhile, the same titles with "naturist" replacing "nudist" have no pages at all. I think this needs to be fixed.

Unless anyone objects, I hereby propose to start a "Naturist resort" article and redirect the other variations on the title (naturist colony, naturist club, nudist colony, nudist club, and nudist resort) to that article instead of here.

This may take some time; I wouldn't expect to be done before mid-January.

—VeryRarelyStable (talk) 10:27, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Yes, there should be a separate article for "landed" clubs and resorts as distinct from Nude recreation generally, since they were the only form of nudism until the 1960s-70s.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 14:35, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. SunCrow (talk) 02:34, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Naturist resort is now live; about to start doing redirects. Please feel free to hop in and edit, especially if it's to add information. —VeryRarelyStable (talk) 04:44, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

I edited the Nudity navbox, replacing the link to category:Naturist resorts with a link to Naturist resort.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 16:42, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Suggest a photo for clothing optional recreation - beaches

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Naked_male.jpg

From Gunnison Beach and will soon be renamed Rumblerumble33 (talk) 22:10, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you, but there are already plenty of photos of clothing-optional beaches to choose from. —VeryRarelyStable 23:05, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

What does { { - } } do?

What does { { - } } (without the spaces) do? Should it be removed? Roly (talk) 14:15, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

It invokes Template:Clear, apparently. —VeryRarelyStable 08:53, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. So it does serve a purpose, even if I don't see what :-) Roly (talk) 09:26, 25 January 2023 (UTC)