Talk:Nueve (Mexican TV network)

Requested move 12 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved as per "the deal" below.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:18, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

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Channel 9 (Mexico) → Nu9ve – Nobody's calling it "Channel 9" in English, and it typically is being rendered as "Nu9ve", "El Nueve" or less commonly "NU9VE", though official use has been inconsistent. For editors not familiar with Spanish, nueve is nine in Spanish, and so an equivalent name in English would be "Nin9". It is also worth noting that the network was just relaunched with this new name on Monday, July 9; it was previously Gala TV, with the article at Gala TV (Mexico).

Examples of official use:

• The Twitter account is @ElNueveOf and labeled "El Nueve". It was @Nu9veOf at the start of the week. The Facebook page is listed as Canal Nu9ve.
• The official website is titled "El Nu9ve".
• This press release from July 4 uses NU9VE.

News articles use the Nu9ve (or Canal Nu9ve — the use of Canal is not that common) rendering, as seen in El Sol de México and El Financiero.

I had originally moved the article from Gala TV (Mexico) to Nu9ve on July 7 ahead of the name change effective Monday, which required a lot of changes to other Mexican TV lists and templates. It was moved back by User:Cristianocampo93, who said he thought the rendering made sense as a disambiguation. This school of thought would be similar to the page name of Channel 13 (Argentina) for a network that goes by El Trece. (The associated category uses El Trece, and I'd argue a move is warranted there; the categories related to this network still are labeled Gala TV.) eswiki uses Canal 9 (México).

I would be interested in hearing opinions from a variety of editors, as I feel the current name is way out of tune with current usage, not idiomatic, and not the best location for the article. Raymie (t • c) 01:28, 12 July 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 18:58, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Move to Canal Nueve or Canal 9 (Mexico) We had the same 'oh God really with the number in the word' pain with MTV Tres (which had a stupid accented 3 not used in any language except the Viacom stylebook) that took six years to sort out before we finally said enough and just used 'Tres'. And yup, I know exactly how you feel about editors who jump the gun with channel name changes. Canal Nueve is nice and clear and reflects the language of the host nation, and I'd prefer it be kept under a 'Canal' title (I do see it's uncommon, but it's clear that it's a broadcast channel). But I certainly don't want the next few years of this being full of moves to 'Nu9ve' or 'Nu9`ve' or whatever, so I suggest we nip this right away; I prefer Canal Nueve. Nueve alone is too confusing though, that much I know. Nate • (chatter) 01:46, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

• I was the one who (mildly) jumped the gun — I did the page move on Saturday to Nu9ve. (I did that because the rename was happening on Monday, and there are many dependent articles that needed updating that I was tackling at the same time.) Given all the applications, the logo, and official press, I figured that was the best location for the article. Now that there's been another move attempt to a location I don't think is the best fit, I've brought this to an RM. Raymie (t • c) 03:16, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

• I would oppose the original request, since Nu9ve is the sort of stylization we avoid under WP:MOS-TM. In addition, it's not clear to me that the WP:COMMONNAME would have immediately changed upon the change in the WP:OFFICIAL title of the station. Has the change been reflected in coverage in reliable secondary sources, per WP:NAMECHANGES? Dekimasuよ! 16:54, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

• @Dekimasu: Televisa has backed off using the Nu9ve in print somewhat, but not everyone has. Twitter is now El Nueve (@ElNueveOf). As to press articles:

• There are several articles from the week before the change that use Nu9ve: [1], [2], as well as some articles since then that have mentioned the channel using Nu9ve: [3], [4], [5].
• It's harder to find articles using "Canal Nueve" or "canal Nueve" (none use El Nueve, by the way, though Televisa's own account for it does): [6], [7], [8]

For some reason, there is a lot of inconsistency in the way the channel's name is rendered. MOS-TM probably suggests one of "El Nueve", "Canal Nueve" or "Canal 9" be used, with "Nueve (Mexico)" being a potential title as well. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. Raymie (t • c) 19:43, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose. Should be "Nine (Mexican TV network)". This is the English wikipedia, so the name should be rendered in English unless the Spanish name is adopted in English common usage per WP:COMMONNAME. Usage in Mexican press is not there for relevant. Spshu (talk) 13:33, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

• @Spshu: I'd argue COMMONNAME isn't the right fit here, given how few sources are available: "If there are too few reliable English-language sources to constitute an established usage, follow the conventions of the language appropriate to the subject (German for German politicians, Portuguese for Brazilian towns, and so on)." I'm increasingly of the opinion that Nueve (Mexico) is the best place to put the article, and if not there, Canal 9 (Mexico). In fact, our article at Nueve is for a television channel in Spain; the precedent here would be set by articles like Cuatro (TV channel). Raymie (t • c) 03:40, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

So, per WP:UE. But that and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Spain & Spanish-related articles does not give a convention for TV related articles. WP article's current name like Nueve and Cuatro (TV channel) do not set precedents per OTHERSTUFF plus there were no discussion at their talk pages regarding proper convention or translation. Spshu (talk) 14:01, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

@Spshu: I just get the sense that while the name suggestions that are more Anglicized are closer to other style guidelines, they're not that close to the informal consensus and scheme that's developed in this field. Generally, English-language sources for articles mentioning TV in the Spanish-speaking world, which are typically found in trade publications like Variety, hew closer to the original name (especially Canal X formulations). There are Variety articles from the late 2000s and early 2010s, when the network was formally known as Galavisión, that use Canal 9: [9], [10]. Perhaps this might be a topic worth bringing to WikiProject Television Stations in the future. Raymie (t • c) 20:24, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

Per the ongoing discussion, and the question to me above, I don't think there's a problem with "Nueve" if that's what it's called in reliable English-language sources. I would have thought Nueve (TV channel) would be a good option, but since the article at Nueve is also a TV channel, that doesn't work. Thus I think Nueve (Mexican TV channel) is the best option at this point, with a possible move for the defunct Spanish station as well. Dekimasuよ! 02:49, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Note SoHo (Australian TV channel), Oprah Winfrey Network (Canadian TV channel), Mega (Spanish television channel), For You (Italian TV channel), etc. Dekimasuよ! 02:52, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

I think that might be the right thing to do, probably with a follow-up RM to move Nueve to Nueve (Spanish TV channel) as it's defunct and there's no primary topic. With article names like Canal 6 (Nicaragua) or Televicentro (Honduras), there's some idea that there's a TV channel. Not so much with a name like Nueve. Raymie (t • c) 03:15, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

Dekimasu is correct with the disambiguation per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (broadcasting). The examples given above by Raymie for Canal 6 and Televicentro are not supported by the guideline and shouldn't be used as an example of proper disambiguation. --Gonnym (talk) 17:21, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Here's the deal

• Channel 9 (Mexico) → Nueve (Mexican TV channel) Nueve (Mexican TV network)
• Nueve → Nueve (Spanish TV channel) per Dekimasu. I don't think we need a RM for that, it was a short-lived channel hardly worth of WP:PTOPIC
• Nueve (disambiguation) → Nueve – I've just created the dab page that also includes La Nueve, a WW2 military unit

No such user (talk) 10:01, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

• @No such user: I agree with this proposal, but changing the first target to Nueve (Mexican TV network) per WP:NCBC, as the Mexican Nueve is a broadcast network. I also think Canal 9 (Argentina) which goes by "El Nueve" (including its logo) might be worth linking there. Raymie (t • c) 01:11, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

• @Raymie:. Agreed, I edited the proposal. No such user (talk) 07:17, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

• This seems fine. Dekimasuよ! 01:32, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support as proposed and amended by No such user. I have been quietly stalking this discussion for several days as a personal learning experience. You seem to have reached a clear and logical consesus. Nice work. I have restructured the last few comments for clarity to new commenters.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:25, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose "Nu9ve". Rreagan007 (talk) 05:22, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

@Rreagan007: "Nu9ve" was abandon very early in the discussion. The current proposed names are:

• Channel 9 (Mexico) → Nueve (Mexican TV network)
• Nueve → Nueve (Spanish TV channel)
• Nueve (disambiguation) → Nueve

--- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:46, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NCBC. --Gonnym (talk) 17:23, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.