Talk:Nürnberg Hauptbahnhof

Assessment logic

Category 1 station (of international importance) - one of only 20 in Germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bermicourt (talk • contribs) 09:07, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Move request

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:07, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

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Nürnberg Hauptbahnhof → Nuremberg Central Station – Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC) The article itself says that this in ususally translated to Central Station, as it ought to be; and what reason is there to spell Nuremberg differently from the article on the city itself? Septentrionalis PMAnderson

Strongly support as nom. This request should not have been necessary. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support as this is clear English and there is precedence in the literature for translating Hauptbahnhof as "Central Station". Of course, maps and tourist guides often leave the name in German, but this is an encyclopaedia, not a guide. But be aware, that the translation of Hauptbahnhof was debated a while ago and the end result was not to translate it, so we are setting something of a precedent here. --Bermicourt (talk) 16:28, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Which means we are left with "Nuremberg Hauptbahnhof". Sounds silly. Why should we go down the Use English route for a German railway station? "Central Station" isn't even a decent/proper translation of "Hauptbahnhof". I'm sorry I'll have to disagree and oppose. Jared Preston (talk) 23:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Oppose, all other wikipedia pages about other stations on this line are still in German. We have to be consistent.--GoodandTrue (talk) 19:51, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

If you supply a list, I will add them to the request. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:21, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support The city is always "Nuremberg" in English, so you can't leave it like this. What do with "Hauptbahnhof" is a tricky question. I suppose "Central Station" will do. (The box needs to say "Nürnberg Hbf". What's up with "Nuremberg Hbf"? Das is Deutschlish!) Kauffner (talk) 09:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose - Unfortunately Nuremberg Central Station has no common usage. Marcus Qwertyus 00:49, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

But Nürnberg Hauptbahnhof does? Kauffner (talk) 05:17, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

And WP:COMMONNAME does not automatically trump anyway especially when it comes to translations. WP:USEENGLISH is also important. --Bermicourt (talk) 13:55, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

After looking at Hanoi Railway Station, Saigon Railway Station, Beijing Railway Station, Warszawa Centralna railway station, Amsterdam Centraal railway station, and Roma Termini railway station, I suggest Nuremberg Railway Station. (But note also Stockholm Central Station and Praha hlavní nádraží.) Kauffner (talk)

• Comment. @Marcus Qwertyus: the proposed name does have common usage (e.g 80,000 hits on google). Google books also gives the following results:

1. Nuremberg Central [Railway] Station: 12 hits
2. Nuremberg Main [Railway] Station: 8 hits
3. Nuremberg Hauptbahnhof: 4 hits

Normal practice in English-speaking countries is to name the main station of a city/town "Foo Central"; more rarely it is "Foo Main". --Bermicourt (talk) 18:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

For "Nürnberg Hauptbahnhof" -wikipedia, I get 62 post-1980 Google Book results. However, the majority of these are not in English. There are 6 results for "Nuremberg Central Station" -wikipedia, 5 for "Nuremberg Railway Station" -wikipedia, and 5 "Nuremberg Main Station" -wikipedia. Don't even think about "Nuremberg Hauptbahnhof" -wikipedia!! I don't care how many hits it gets. (OK, three, if you are so interested.) Kauffner (talk) 07:11, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Chuckle :) --Bermicourt (talk) 17:32, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Agree that the current name is not the best, but I think I'd move it to Nuremberg Hauptbahnhof. There isn't a lot in it in the searches devised so far, and that's just my experience of what it's called in English... particularly by the inhabitants of Nuremberg! Hauptbahnhof Nuremberg is another candidate. Andrewa (talk) 03:18, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

The normal German word order i.e. "Hauptbahnhof Nürnberg" isn't even used on German Wikipedia, so it would be slightly odd IMHO to half-Anglicize it and reverse the order to "Hauptbahnhof Nuremberg". --Bermicourt (talk) 05:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Theoretically and logically I agree, but language is not always logical, Wikipedia policy is to follow actual usage, and when I was there asking directions to the station to continue my Eurail tour that's what they called it in English, as I speak no German. Andrewa (talk) 10:16, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, and of course I mean English Wikipedia policy. Not sure I see the relevance, but as someone else has raised the point that German Wikipedia departs from normal German word order (which I didn't even know, just to repeat, I just know what the Nuremburgians said when they spoke to me in English) it would be necessary to know what the reason is for the German Wikipedia decision on their article title before acting on it, IMO. Andrewa (talk) 23:39, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

• If there's no particularly well-established English equivalent, I suggest we leave it with the German name (as is done in other similar cases, such as München Hauptbahnhof). But I definitely oppose any intermediate solution. If you're going to translate Nürnberg, then translate the whole thing.--Kotniski (talk) 11:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support Use the English name, per UE. 'Central Station' is the common term, while 'Main Station' is a undue direct translation, which is not a good idea. From what I have seen while traveling at train stations in Germany, DB uses 'Central Station' on English signs for where they are translating the German word Hauptbahnhof. This is also by far most common in literature. Arsenikk ^(talk) 23:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Post RM and associated 120x articles moves

Vegaswikian, I see 4 supports, 5 opposes. Not a vote but all the same can you explain why was this moved? In ictu oculi (talk) 11:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Unless I'm missing something I see only 3 opposes. But this is the normal convention and if you take a look at Central station you'll see why. If Bahnhof is "Station" in English then the nearest common equivalent of Hauptbahnhof is "Central Station". --Bermicourt (talk) 14:52, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

As I said, I see 4 supports, 5 opposes:

• Support Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:32, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support Bermicourt (talk) 16:28, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support Kauffner (talk) 09:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
• Support Arsenikk ^(talk) 23:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Jared Preston (talk) 23:46, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose GoodandTrue (talk) 19:51, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Marcus Qwertyus 00:49, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Andrewa (talk) 03:18, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose Kotniski (talk) 11:50, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

And I'm afraid this article central station looks initially as if it may be somewhat prone to OR. That's just my initial impression, I'd have to look more closely.

Also regarding the following Dec 20 2011 RM on Berlin Hauptbahnhof, "Berlin Central Station" gets only 5 GBhits, wheras "Berlin Hauptbahnhof" gets 1650 in English sources. At 1650 vs 5 that wouldn't be winning any prizes as the most convincing RM of all time. nor can I see where that RM gives a license to move all 120x articles of Category:Hauptbahnhof in Germany 2 days later, 22 Dec 2011. Where was that agreed? In ictu oculi (talk) 15:40, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

The article central station is an unreferenced list of indiscriminate trivia. It is basically a list of stations which have the word "main" or "central" in their name in various languages, not by any stretch of the imagination a list of main stations of various cities around the world, to be honest I've been considering AfDing it. - filelakeshoe 18:03, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

We're going over old ground here. Googlehits are not a good guide especially when we're talking about a foreign word. You will nearly always get more hits of a foreign word than its English translation, especially as many people will not know how to translate it properly. Then there's the confusion over "main station" and "central station" because Haupt literally means "main"; but we translate Hauptmann as "captain" not "main man"! And then there's the fact that 99% of the English speaking world has no idea what a Hauptbahnhof is anyway, so why not translate it into something meaningful and accurate? --Bermicourt (talk) 19:36, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Sources...

Are we really citing a book from 1914 and the testicularly-challenged Austrian painter as evidence for the station's current name being "Central"? Wheeltapper (talk) 09:57, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Your point is that because it's a 99 year old source it's somehow less valid? Combined with an ad-hominem attack against the author, I'm perplexed at what you're expecting as a response. Lexlex (傻) (talk) 14:45, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes. I would indeed say that a 2001 source - which was deleted because a Rough Guide editorial decision "contravenes discussion page outcome", so naughty naughty Rough Guides - is vastly more valid as an example of current usage than one from 99 years ago. I see we have gained a source from 1910 now! One of the added sources is quoting Wikipedia, so we have circular references. It is somewhat disputed as to whether DB know what their stations are called. As for the painter, a) he presumably spoke German, so we are dealing with translations b) he is no doubt a little bit used to criticism by now, as his sits in his moon base with Lord Lucan. Wheeltapper (talk) 18:56, 7 October 2013 (UTC)