Talk:O'Connell family of Derrynane

DNA

(The following was removed from the article by an editor who did not bother to check the highly professional CTS4466 Project site, which is simply publishing data and also citing some published articles. They do have their own linked work-in-progress article or two and those have been professional too.)

The O'Connells of Kerry belong to the A151 clade of CTS4466, itself the most prolific clade of FGC11134, a primary clade of the Insular L21 clade of Haplogroup R1b. This does not match the Uí Fidgenti clade of A1135 but is however relatively closely related to it, both belonging to CTS4466 together with the S1121 Eóganachta. The Macaulay family of Lewis are the other significant name belonging to A151 together with a group of people from Scandinavia. Furthermore, an A151 sample from an actual (clearly non-slave) Viking grave from northern Scotland has recently been published.

And now for the original research

Although rather very obvious. A151 is the clade of the Síl Conaire and the Corcu Duibne and O'Connells clearly do descend from them, or the Corcu Duibne did before being mostly overrun by other lineages in later years, and the O'Connells represent most of the remainder. A Conaire Mór relation from a ~200AD tomb in the Midlands is A151, but Cassidy's article is embargoed again. I'm putting this here just to remind people of what every specialist and educated follower already knows. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.211.160.162 (talk) 19:44, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Irish nobility

Yes and no. One of their ancestors was knighted way back, and later the French were happy to recognize Count O'Connell's "pedigree". There seems to be debate as to how far it actually goes back reliably, but it can be found in many sources, including Burke's I believe. They are at the very least gentry but I don't know if they ever received the white wand/rod. Probably not. In which case they were not Gaelic peers. But their location may have been unfortunate. They did the very best they could and made very many noble friends and relations. No doubt given the opportunity the O'Connells would have made proper lords. DinDraithou (talk) 20:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

It looks like we are mistaken and they actually were. Although citing him before I have now reread Cronnelly and found that the O'Connells, the same ones with 100% certainty, are mentioned as Chiefs of Magunihy in the medieval topographical poems. This probably can't be denied and must be why Edward MacLysaght included them in his list of the Gaelic nobility,[1] even though they cannot prove royal extraction (in fact a few more Gaelic noble families also can't). I do not understand why some have not applied for recognition as chiefs but who knows what their problems are. DinDraithou (talk) 01:29, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Also according to the old poem "they" should belong to the O'Conghaile of Corcu Duibne (pp. 109, lxviii).[2] This is fairly convincing although an Uí Chonaill Gabra descent is still not impossible. There are other sources which could potentially both contradict the poem and still allow them to be noble. I said 100% certainty but it could be that Cronnelly was mislead. A very old Burke's "Commoners" (Landed Gentry) mentions their first reliable ancestor, Aodh or Hugh O'Connell, recognized a chief by the Normans in the time of Edward III,[3] and so it may depend on the forms of the name in the Norman sources which Gaelic people they actually descend from. This is not my specialty. DinDraithou (talk) 02:24, 1 September 2010 (UTC)