Talk:Occitania

date

Has anyone got a date for the first use of Occitan/Occitania - at present the articles states both that they date from the 13th and 19th centuries. And is it true that the French kings abolished Occitan parlements? There were still parlements and états généraux in the south of France up till the Revolution. Hedgehog 16:16, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There are no links to any of the history of these culturally unified but politically separate areas that has been developed at Wikipedia: Foix, Septimania etc. --Wetman 12:53, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Distracting blank spaces

Formatting that encases the framed table of contents in text, in just the way a framed map or image is enclosed within the text, is now available: {{TOCleft}} in the HTML does the job.

Blank space opposite the ToC, besides being unsightly and distracting, suggests that there is a major break in the continuity of the text, which may not be the case. Blanks in page layout are voids and they have meanings to the experienced reader. The space betweeen paragraphs marks a brief pause between separate blocks of thought. A deeper space, in a well-printed text, signifies a more complete shift in thought: note the spaces that separate sub-headings in Wikipedia articles.

A handful of thoughtless and aggressive Wikipedians revert the "TOCleft" format at will. A particularly aggressive de-formatter is User:Ed g2s

The reader may want to compare versions at the Page history. --Wetman 19:59, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I find this entire article well-meaning but ill-conceived

I became aware of this article when someone decided that, because I was born in Toulon (Var), I should be listed an an "Occitan" writer and changed my page. What I want to say is this: 1. Being born in Toulon might conceivably make me a "Provençal" writer; calling me an "Occitan" writer is akin to mixing up a Sioux (Lakota) and a Cheyenne because they're both Plains Indians. In mondern-day terms, the label "Occitan" should be reserved only to those born in the Languedoc-Roussillon area (excluding Catalans) and parts of the Midi-Pyrenees, period. Using the wider geographic area covered in this article is at best misleading, at worst preposterous. 2. Being called an "Occitan" writer or artist should be a cultural statement, not an accident of birth. There are a number of famous writers and artists in America who have Native American ancestry and Wiki does not refer to them as a "Cheyenne writer" -- unless of course they have written about or produced works pertinent to the Cheyenne Nation. For example: Comic artist Philippe Druillet (born in Toulouse) is no more an "Occitan" artist than Tom Wolfe is a Mattaponi writer because he was born in Richmond, Virginia. I think the attempt by User 81.67.178.49 to label all kinds of French writers and artists as "Occitan" solely because of their birthplaces is akin to vandalism and should be reversed. JMLofficier 14:31, 25 December 2006 (UTC)JMLofficier 25 December 2006 03:30 p.m.

I also live in Toulon, I belong to an old Provençal family and I do consider myself as an Occitan. You should learn the exact linguistic and cultural meaning of 'Occitan' and you should study more accurately the culture of your own country.--Aubadaurada 08:48, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

His country is France. You should not seek to impose your own romantic longings on millions of other people. All over the world, wherever one lives, the land is likely to have been occupied by several different cultures at different periods. As I found it this article had POV problems bordering on fantasy. CalJW 14:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Please read my response below. I am afraid that the lack of objectivity is your problem, not mine.--Aubadaurada 15:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid that the lack of objectivity is your problem, not mine. CalJW 03:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Kafka was a Czech writer in German, and there are many more examples of people from a place belonging to another culture.

In Catalonia we categorize as Catalan writers those who use Catalan (by default), but also Spanish (Catalan writers in Spanish) or French (Catalan writers in French), but they all are Catalans since they live in a place where Catalan is spoken.

--Casaforra (parlem-ne) 15:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Please read with extreme caution

This is the sort of article which is of most interest to people with an intense bias and an antagonistic relationship with modern reality. Southern France is Southern France, and romantic pretences to the contrary have no place in an encyclopedia. Readers should be highly sceptical about this article, as it may relapse into extreme POV at any time. CalJW 14:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Nobody says that Occitania is not in Southern France and nobody says that Occitan is the first spoken language of this territory. Nevertheless, the definition of Occitania as the country where Occitan is the traditional language remains exact. When you talk about "modern reality", I suggest you to notice that Occitan is still a part of this modern reality since it is not a dead language (although minoritary). So you should be more objective and open-minded toward this complex reality.--Aubadaurada 15:32, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I am entirely unbiased, but you most certainly are biased. However if you refuse to acknowledge that I don't suppose I will be able to do anything to about it. CalJW 03:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

????? And then? Now let's be serious and let's make an encyclopedia.--Aubadaurada 01:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Again: Occitania is not a country, there is no historical proof. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.96.71.114 (talk) 12:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

The lands south of the Massif Central and between the Rhone and Garonne rivers were culturally and politically interconnected from the 8th century. It was referred to as a separate political entity by the Papacy and the French Crown on numerous occasions. Much of it was under the very nominal overlordship of the Kings of France, with pieces as fiefs from the Counts of Barcelona and Kings of Aragorn and from the Holy Roman Emperor. It was politically swallowed up by the King of France in the mid and late 13th Century after the Albigensian Crusade, culminating with the County of Toulouse falling to the inheritance of the crown in 1271 with the death of Joan, the last heir of Raymond VII, count of Toulouse. Whiteboar101 (talk) 03:34, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

The map is wrong

It includes some valleys in the north of Aragon as if they were Gascon-speaking, but they are Aragonese-speaking. Occitan is not spoken in Aragon, the only place in Spain where it is spoken is in the Aran Valley, in Catalonia. --Estrolicador 00:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

A better map is inserted, from now on.--Nil Blau (talk) 19:48, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Better how? The current map(which, to be fair, might not be the one you are talking of) shows only parts of France which have spoken occitan or occitan-related languages, making no distinction between the two. Bufinidas (talk) 17:40, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

The map screams out a need for labels. Otherwise, one has to consult another map to understand the first, which is demented. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.237.255.106 (talk) 08:29, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Not a state

Occitania is not and it has never been a state. It consists of an imaginary region with a pseudo common language, that's all. --Frukko (talk) 22:38, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It is not a state but it is the territory of a language fully recognized in Romance linguistics. Please read any Romance linguistics manual.--Nil Blau (talk) 15:48, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Occitania, Oc Country, Languedoc

It is very misleading to say in the introduction that Languedoc is a synonym or a former synonym of Occitania.Languedoc is absolutely not a synonym for "Occitania" in current, contemporary use, but a region pertaining to Occitania. You can check this in any dictionary of proper names (in English, in French or in Occitan). In a remote past, it is not totally impossible that Languedoc could have been a synonym for Occitania but such a sense is not fully attested in medieval texts. The name Oc Country (Occitan País d'Òc, French Pays d'Oc) is a synonym for Occitania and therefore this has to be mentioned, though this use is rather seldom.--Nil Blau (talk) 16:13, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Albert Camus

As much interest and respect I have for the Occitan language and culture, I have never seen any proof that Albert Camus is an occitan writer, neither with respect to language nor with respect to culture. I'm going to remove his name from this list of famous Occitans unless and until someone can provide a verifiable primary source for this claim. Esbullin (talk) 19:04, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

There is a new article called Occitan cuisine that by the moment is only the beginning of a traduction of its homologous in catalan, Cuina occitana, which is very long and complet. My English may not be enough good to translate it completelly, so I ask for help to do it. If not, it will only grown slower. Thank you anyway in advance to correct linguistic errors in it.

Someone has demanded to export the article to a section in an article for Occitanie, but it's not a good idea knowing the lenght that it will have (please, see the catalan one: Cuina occitana). However, it is not a bad idea to copy an introduction of it in a section for the general article for occitanie, with a link as "principal article" to the occitan cuisine one. Thank you all.--Slastic (talk) 17:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Occitan cuisine needs to be merged with this article. Maybe, if this article gets big enough, it can be split off again.--I dream of horses (T) @ 19:00, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

If even I can make out what the Catalan article is saying, roughly, then someone whose French and Spanish is better than ours can translate the lengthy and serious Catalan article. There used to be a "translation needed" page in Wikipedia. Slastic's point is good: a succinct summary belongs here, with a hatnote alerting readers to the full details. --Wetman (talk) 19:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Removal Of Period

I meant to say in the edit summary "WP:CAPTION".Curb Chain (talk) 05:30, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Infobox

I've twice removed an IP editor's insertion of an infobox. First of all, infoboxes aren't required or anything, and second, the box was headed by the term "Cultural province", a great misnomer for something with such a long history, much of which not as anything like a "cultural province". In addition, the box listed Occitania as geographically "belonging" to France, flag icon and all, that that's incorrect. Drmies (talk) 18:22, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Picture caption capitalization

The "a" in this caption on the picture should be capitalized. I still don't know how to edit picture captions...

a bilingual street sign in Toulouse.

Havoc21 (talk) 03:14, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

You just find the "[[File:]]"/"[[Image:]]" in the article source that brings in the image you're looking at and change the caption.

Regardless, I fixed it for you.

Espreon (talk) 03:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Timings.

"...from as early as 1242... ...This derives from the name Lenga d'òc that was used in Italian (Lingua d'òc) by Dante..."

Dante was born circa 1265. --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii 02:05, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

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Always?

A sentence says "On the other hand one always speaks Occitan in the French Basque Country."

I'm an Occitanophile, but this statement is nonsense. Most people who live there don't even speak Occitan, so how can people possibly always speak Occitan? Some people speak it in part of the French Basque Country, but definitely not "always".

--Timtranslates (talk) 15:10, 6 October 2024 (UTC)