Talk:Oceania (continent)

Centralizing discussion

Please keep the discussion centralized here instead of being dispersed in the following pages:

• Talk:Australia (continent)
  • Talk:Australia_(continent)#Oceania_as_a_continent
  • Talk:Australia_(continent)/Archive_2#Oceania
  • Talk:Australia_(continent)/Archive_2#Still_wrong?
  • Talk:Australia_(continent)/Archive_2#Edit_request
  • Talk:Australia_(continent)/Archive_2#Australia_as_a_continent?_This_is_wrong_in_every_level._This_isn't_knowledge._This_is_sharing_misconceptions.
  • Talk:Australia_(continent)/Archive_1#Since_when?

• Talk:Continent
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_6#Australia-Oceania
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_5#New_references:_use_of_Oceania_in_English-language_world
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_5#Australia_or_Oceania
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_5#Australia/Oceania
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_5#Oceania_and_the_n-continent_model_table
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_4#Oceania
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_2#Oceania_not_the_same_as_Australia
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_2#Oceania_is_the_same_as_Australia
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_1#Oceania_v._Australasia_v._Australia
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_1#Oceania?
  • Talk:Continent/Archive_1#Australia_or_Oceania

• Talk:Oceania
  • Talk:Oceania#Oceania_as_a_continent
  • Talk:Oceania#Proposed_merge_with_Australia_(continent)
  • Talk:Oceania#Edit_request

See also the two redirects for discussion above. fgnievinski (talk) 03:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Notability

Although the concept of Oceania as a continent went out of fashion in favor of the Australian continent for much of the anglosphere, it seems to have been a notable concept at some point in history (and notability cannot be lost), not to mention the contemporary usage in formal education in non-English speaking countries. However ill formed, geologically speaking, how can one pretend that the continent of Oceania never existed as a notable concept? fgnievinski (talk) 03:40, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia explains this all very well neutrally already. And this has been discussed and discussed. I live in New Zealand - I live in Oceania but I do not live on a continent - the nearest continent is three hours flying away. - there is no obligation anywhere that every piece of land on Earth is considered be catagorised as part of a continent. It definitely is not all continental that is obvious. Hawai'i, Tahiti, etc etc are in Oceania but are even more not part of a continent. The convenient synergy between continental landmasses and sensible regional grouping works for much or the world but completely breaks down when talking about Oceania. English speakers tend to make this distinction, others more remote often don't. Please remember that this is English Wikipedia. Andrewgprout (talk) 04:24, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

I go against you Andrewgprout. All countries and islands (including New Zealand and Java) have to be apart of a continent. Every piece of land on earth can NOT exist without their own continent. Your country doesn’t have to be connected to the mainland of any continent but you still truly live inside one of the 6 continental shelves. In this case, Oceania is the name of your continent. Australia is as well apart of Oceania! By the way, I don’t view continents as a region. If you want me to explain what a region is, I will tell you. Craig Lungren (talk) 04:23, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

There are different definitions of continents, as explained in the Continent article. By the definition prevalent in most English-speaking countries, not all countries are located on continents. Your country may do it a different way, but as Andrew said, this is English Wikipedia. We cover contrary views, but we use the common words and definitions used in English as the basis of our articles. I'm sure the Wikipedia in your native language does the same thing with its articles, as it rightly should. BilCat (talk) 04:54, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

I think you are confused as to what "continental shelf" means. If you look at the map on that page, you will notice that most of the islands of Oceania, the Caribbean, and the Mediterranean do not lie on the continental shelves. To say nothing of islands far out in the ocean such as Bermuda. --Khajidha (talk) 11:21, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I'm not clear on what you are trying to do here. As Andrewgprout says, this is already covered quite well in our existing articles. --Khajidha (talk) 15:31, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Redirect target

Per both Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2018 July 1#Oceania (continent) and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oceania (continent), the target should be Australia (continent). As such, this shouldn't be arbitrarily changed without discussion at an RfD. Thanks. BilCat (talk) 16:01, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

I struggle to understand why it would redirect to an article that covers a significantly smaller area instead of the article that covers the entirety of Oceania. I struggle even more to understand why anyone would need this redirect when a simple Oceania would take them to the article that covers the material completely.--Khajidha (talk) 12:06, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

From my comments at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2018 July 1#Oceania (continent): "...I pointed the redirect to "Australia (continent)" in 2012 primarily so that changes to those links in other articles by those in favor of Oceania being considered a continent will still go to the correct Wikipedia article on the seventh continent." I was doing a lot of cleanup at the time tracking down misdirected links, especially in the Continent article, and this has been a good solution for 8 years. Hatnotes take care of getting the reader to the correct article anyway, so, for me, this is the deciding factor. BilCat (talk) 21:31, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

@Khajidha: See this diff for why I continue to recommend keeping this redirect as-is. Note that the IP only changed the actual link, not the visible part, so it still showed "Australia" in the piped text, while linking to Oceania (continent). In this case, if no one had caught the change for several days, an unsuspecting reader would still end up at the correct article, Australia (continent). BilCat (talk) 22:45, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

Proposed Compromise

I propose the following lead as a compromise:

Oceania (UK: /ˌoʊsiˈɑːniə, ˌoʊʃi-, -ˈeɪn-/, US: /ˌoʊʃiˈæniə/ , /-ˈɑːn-/) is a geographic region sometimes considered to be a continent that includes Australasia, Melanesia, Micronesia and Polynesia.

This could recognize that outside of the US, Oceania is considered to be a continent without actually calling it one.

PtolemyXV (talk) 20:39, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

This is the talk page for the redirect page, not the Oceania article. You're suggestion needs to be made at Talk:Oceania so editors to that article can participate in the suggestion. BilCat (talk) 00:57, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm confused by all this

I'm working on a website where I have a list of countries, grouped by the continent they belong to. I got stuck at Australia/Oceania as I didn't know how to name this group properly, so I went on the internet for a quick Google search that shouldn't have taken more than 2 minutes. I landed on Wikipedia and now I'm even more confused than before. Can someone please help me and tell me how I should name the last group in my country list? I really don't care about all the drama around it, I just need a quick answer so I can move on with my life. I already wasted way too long on this. Thank you! Matronator (talk) 00:48, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

@Matronator: Where did you get the idea that all countries are part of a continent? Andrewgprout (talk) 07:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Because it has been taught that way by many countries (especially non-English-speaking countries) in the world. 120.16.47.4 (talk) 04:26, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

That's pretty stupid of them, then. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:37, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

@Andrewgprout: I don't know, I never really cared much for geography and it made sense anyway. Whatever, if they're not that's cool, but I need to group the list somehow and can't just leave out few countries because they're not on a continent. But we're sidetracking, I need to get back to the original question. Which is it, Oceania or Australia? Matronator (talk) 00:18, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

In this position I would use Oceania. Australia (the continent) does not include most of Oceania (Hawai'i for instance) so is plain wrong. Oceania includes the geographical expanse you are looking for, but in a real pedantic sense it is wrong to call Oceania a continent (because mostly it is not, by definition it is an anti continent). Label it something else or just ignore the inconsistency, that is what most people seem to do. Andrewgprout (talk) 00:28, 23 November 2021 (UTC)