Talk:Octopussy/Archive 1

Archive 1

Derivation of the word

Regarding the recent edit that had explicitly mentioned the 'deeper' meaning of pussy, what exactly is the derivation of Octopussy? I'm asking because at octopus we mention that Octopussy is a "portmanteau of octopus and pussycat", but I haven't seen the movie or read the book—do either of them elaborate on the meaning, other than the obvious "octopus chick"? Femto 11:50, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Not that I recall from reading the story several years ago. Fleming just chose a name that sounded titillating. In fact, the edit that was removed was correct -- it's not a portmanteau of octopus and pussycat, but indeed it was octopus and "pussy", the slang term for female genitalia. Fleming did something similar with his character name Pussy Galore from Goldfinger. It was just a bit of British schoolboy humor. I just felt there was no need to spell out what the word meant since most people could figure it out for themselves. In the original short story, "Octopussy" refers to an animal that Major Smythe encounters, whereas in the film it is the name given to the female lead, whose female followers wear octopus tattoos -- at one point one of them describes the tattoo to Bond as "That's my little octopussy." It's all wink-wink, nudge-nudge stuff and probably the main reason why "Octopussy" didn't appear as a film until the 1980s when they could actually get away with such things in a PG-rated movie. 23skidoo 12:23, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Its largely assumed that Fleming got the name from his octopus, which was named Pussy Galore. No other reason, as far as I remember has ever been given save for that this is just an example of Fleming's (as 23skidoo stated) school boy humor. K1Bond007 14:17, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)

Great! (and quick answers too) I shall simply describe it as a 'play on words' then at octopus, and leave the rest to the reader where it was meant to belong to. Femto 14:27, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Explanation might be good anyway - this is an encyclopedia after all. The pussy article notes regarding Octopussy that octo- means 8 which may be transliterated to "ate," as in eating. Ergo "eating pussy" or cunnilingus. This might be supported by any references to 'eating octopus' or to the 'Octopus cult' as being similarly interested. While relatively benign in popular culture today, cunnilingus was a bit more risque thirty years ago, and that may explain the need for the hidden meaning. -MagnaMopus 20:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think Fleming (who originated the title) had such complex ideas in mind. The title was just a play on the slang word "pussy", and the PG-rated movie was allowed to stretch this a bit more. The whole octo/8/ate bit is overthinking it, IMO. It's something that would likely have gone over the heads of 99% of the audience and Bond films have always been somewhat more obvious in their double entendres. 23skidoo 22:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

From what I know now, I believe it was named after a coracle that was given to Ian by his lover (and neighbor) Blanche Blackwood — unfortunately this is all I've heard. I always thought it was the Octopus and Fleming's school boy humor, but apparently not. The Octopus itself (Pussy Galore) was apparently named after an SOE agent by the name of 'Pussy Deakin'. Noel Coward's partner always said Pussy Galore was based on Blackwood.... so who knows? K1Bond007 01:39, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but Pussy Galore is rather obviously a pun in reference to pussy and the world's abundant supply of it. Even if the movie puns are more overt than the books, its perhaps useful to explain them in passing. Its interesting on a couple levels: for foreign English readers not totally familiar with English puns, and for culturists who take interest in the use of overt or subvert puns. Bond films are far more about sex than any other topic — "spying" for instance (who can relate to that?). -MagnaMopus 18:32, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

But you can't explain the "pun", if you don't know it truly is one. Yeah, Octopussy has the word "pussy" in it, but that's all you have to go on. The title also has the word "Octopus" in it; add in the fact that the Octopus' name is "pussy" (a legitimate nickname that several women have) and there you go. It's play on the words. You shouldn't assume it's a pun though. Pussy Galore is a lot more obvious and is backed up by the character being the ringleader of an all-lesbian mob. K1Bond007 20:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

KGB shot Orlov?

When Orlov realizes that Bond is aboard he is after the train too, past the KGB border guards who shoot him.

Those guys that shot him looked more like eastern Germany's NVA border soldiers to me. What evidence/reasoning is there that those guys were in fact KGB?

I agree I don't think they were KGB. The KGB chief is present, but the film shows he actually tries to stop them from shooting Orlov. 23skidoo 22:30, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Split

I didn't suggest the split, but was looking at cleaning up some things and saw this. I don't feel like the soundtrack needs its own article, only some of the other Bond films' soundtracks have separate articles and there are not enough notable songs on it. The main page of the music is already linked. Just my thoughts. Phydend 03:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Moore's contract

As the edit summaries show, I've just reverted an obviously well-meant change.

The article says:

Roger Moore's Bond contract had expired with "A View To A Kill" and the producers had been engaged in a semi-public quest for the next Bond including Pierce Brosnan and James Brolin. When the rival Never Say Never Again was announced the Producers re-contracted Moore in the belief that an established actor in the role would fare better against Sean Connery.

This is confusing since of course AVTAK hadn't been made at that point. But the person who changed it (from AVTAK to FYEO) said "can't have been" rather than "wasn't" and so I presume they were making a presumption too. In fact, it could have been, since Moore may have had a contract for AVTAK. The sentence would therefore be poorly worded but not wrong as such. I must admit it had troubled me too, when I first read it, but to just go ahead and change it is kinda "original research".

We should clarify this from some kind of source. – Kieran T ^{(talk | contribs)} 21:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

• First, many thanks for being kind, and no offense is taken by me for your revert. The sentence sounds like it was written to reflect a time before "Octopussy" even went into production, let alone "A View To A Kill." It only makes sense if you read it as Moore's contract had expired with FYEO,

and the Brocollis wanted him back for "Octopussy" to battle Connery's huge popularity, etc. From what I have read (no cites, just old "Starlog" mags, etc.), Moore started making noise that he wanted out after "Moonraker," but was lured back three more times, thus signing up for his last three films on a one-movie at a time basis. I don't really know, to be honest. Sir Rhosis 01:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks yourself – you're a breath of fresh air (especially compared with some of the bizarre conversations I've seen on talk pages lately...)

Would a simple solution be to just remove "...with "A View To A Kill"..." but not replace it with anything, since we don't know for sure? I think the revised sentence might cover the situation well enough. – Kieran T ^{(talk | contribs)} 01:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

• I think you're right, something along the lines of "Roger Moore had expressed some desire to retire from the role of Bond, but the producers lured him back... etc., etc." Sir Rhosis 03:49, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Merge of Monsoon Palace

Currently the article doesn't contain any information that can't be gotten by viewing the film Octopussy. Plus what does exist is short and stubby. If there's no info on the palace itself outside of Bond, I don't think it's notable enough to stand on its own. Wl219 22:03, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Bond is not all - if the palace exists in fact, the article should remain. -- Beardo 07:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Oppose merger .The palace is much more than a movie filmed there.Shyamsunder 21:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Referencing

I'm going to tag a few sentences that need to be referenced. Cliff smith 19:18, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Images (re: GA nom)

• Image:Bond and Octopussy.jpg does not have a rationale.
  •  Done Got the FUR. Vikrant Phadkay 13:04, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
• Image:KamalK.jpg I'm unsure about the sourcing for this. A promoshoot by who? The film company, or external?
  •  Done Replaced that. Vikrant Phadkay 13:04, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The JPS^{talk to me} 11:05, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Successful good article nomination

I am glad to report that this article nominee for good article status has been promoted. This is how the article, as of August 28, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Certainly, seems to generally follow the manual of style.

2. Factually accurate?: Accurate and sourced sufficiently.

3. Broad in coverage?: Covers all appropriate topics without going into excess detail.

4. Neutral point of view?: No evidence of biased treatment that I can see, it's just a franchise film after all.

5. Article stability? No edit warring in the recent past.

6. Images?: Well-used and properly attributed.

If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you to all of the editors who worked hard to bring it to this status, and congratulations. — VanTucky ^(talk) 16:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MaudAdamsBondgirl.jpg

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Pre-title story

There is no evidence that confirms that the pre-title story takes place in Cuba. Some newsgroups think it is Cuba, others think that it Argentina; but there is nothing conclusive to settle the argument, and certainly Wikipedia is not the place to try to resolve this. I have rewritten the text to keep the question open. Kransky (talk) 10:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Trivia

• In the original, Bond attempts to spot the KGB's resident contoller in London, who is engaged in the bidding for the "Fabergé Celestial Sphere." Here, he attempts to outbid Kamal Kahn for a Fabergé imperial Easter egg.

Bond flies over the Taj Mahal as he travels to Udaipur (despite the two locations being 500kms apart)

• The Fabergé egg that is stolen was made in 1897 and is called the Coronation Egg, although its name is not mentioned in the film. The egg contains a model of the Russian Imperial state coach.

• The pre-title sequence was originally to take place in Moonraker (along with the concept of twin knife-throwing assassins) over the Angel Falls, but this was shelved after the river-bed dried up.

• In a classic breaking of the fourth wall, Vijay (disguised as a snake charmer) signals his affiliation to Bond and MI6 by playing the James Bond Theme on a recorder while Bond is disembarking from a boat in the harbor near the Taj Mahal. Bond remarks to Vijay about the "charming tune", a combination self-reference and typical Bond pun.

• A scene where Bond catches Khan cheating at backgammon is adapted from the Bond novel Moonraker, where Bond catches Hugo Drax cheating at contract bridge. A line where Khan tells Bond to spend his money quickly is a direct quote from this novel (Drax does, however, address 007 as "Commander Bond" and Khan calls him "Mr. Bond".)

• The plot of Octopussy involves renegade Soviet military personnel conspiring to detonate a nuclear weapon at a US Air Base in West Germany, an unconventional example of a first strike, to provide the Warsaw Pact with an excuse for a full scale military invasion of Western Europe. On November 11, 1983, just five months after the release of the film, the Europe wide NATO exercise Able Archer 83 featuring a simulated coordinated nuclear release with participation by heads of state, and a simulated DEFCON 1 nuclear alert, had to be abruptly ended. The realistic nature of the exercise had led some in the USSR to believe that Able Archer 83 was a genuine nuclear first strike.

• The tagline for the film was "Nobody does him better", which is obviously a spin-off of the theme song for The Spy Who Loved Me, "Nobody Does It Better". It could, however, be a jab at Sean Connery, as his unofficial 007 movie, Never Say Never Again was released opposite Octopussy. In the end, Octopussy was the better movie financially.

• A magazine format comic book adaptation of Octopussy was produced in 1983 by Marvel Comics. The adaptation was written by Steve Moore and illustrated by Paul Neary.

• The egg involved in the plot is named "Property of a Lady", which is the name of one of Ian Fleming's shortstories released in more recent editions of the collection Octopussy and the Living Daylights.
• This is not the name of the egg,it is the description given in the auction catalogue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.196.37.65 (talk) 16:47, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

• According to my Russian wife, the plaque which appears for the "Repository of Fine film" contains a typo in the Russian translation of "Arts", which should be "Ичкфсства" but actually is spelt as "Ичкчсства". It's just a spelling mistake, with no consequential humour. But the instructions on the bomb controls are comprehensible. —Preceding comment added by A Karley (talk 16:26, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm, what??

"A very little appearance had Gary Russell in one of the first film-sequences as a teenager in a car. Russell was a very popular child-actor a few years ago in his role as Dick - one of the famous five." -- megA (talk) 16:03, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

List of villains

Presumably as an "exiled Afghan prince" Kamal Khan would be one of the Barakzai Dynasty, who ceased reigning in 1973 - should this be mentioned in the article? 195.137.79.247 02:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC) --Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 13:50, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Discussion pertaining to non-free image(s) used in article

A cleanup page has been created for WP:FILMS' spotlight articles. One element that is being checked in ensuring the quality of the articles is the non-free images. Currently, one or more non-free images being used in this article are under discussion to determine if they should be removed from the article for not complying with non-free and fair use requirements. Please comment at the corresponding section within the image cleanup listing. Before contributing the discussion, please first read WP:FILMNFI concerning non-free images. Ideally the discussions pertaining to the spotlight articles will be concluded by the end of June, so please comment soon to ensure there is clear consensus. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 05:28, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

recurring/regular characters

would the likes of general gogol and the defence minister be classed as recurring or regular?--Mustbeemo789 (talk) 17:38, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Name of US Air Force Base

I updated this article to include the name of the fictional US Air Force base in the Plot, but SchroCat keeps removing it. He states that it does not belong in a summary, but this is not a summary, it is the Plot. I came to Wikipedia for THE SPECIFIC PURPOSE of finding that information. Failing that, I had to do much more research. Finally found it, but since Wikipedia is the first stop for a lot of people to get information (trivial or not) it should be included. SchroCat, stop vandalizing this page by removing this information! leave this information in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.55.29.226 (talk) 20:59, 22 February 2015‎

Several problems with your approach and editing here. Next time, drop your talk page comments at the bottom of the page and sign them using four tildes. In terms of your edit warring, you are heading for a possible block of you r IP address if you continue to do something as silly as edit warring. This is a plot summary, and we do not just dump crap in there just because someone couldn't get an answer in a pub quiz. The type information contained in the summaries is outlined at WP:FILMPLOT, which states "The plot summary is an overview of the film's main events". The name of a fictional base (and the bracketed fact it is fictional) are not even close to "main events", and are little more than fluff. They in no way warrant inclusion. I will add that your ridiculous accusations of vandalism fall outside our WP:NPA policy, and your vandalism of work in my userspace is in breach of our WP:HARASSMENT policy, and that's all on top of the edit warring. Keep it up and you'll possibly be getting blocked. - SchroCat (talk) 11:47, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Action sequence error: The tires were not destroyed by gunfire.

The following is incorrect: "A Mercedes-Benz saloon car was stolen by Bond and used to chase the train – having had his tyres shot out, Bond drove on the rails and entered the train.". The tires of his vehicle were destroyed not by gunfire, but rather by a 'severe tire damage' type road passage barrier - his tires were slashed when Bond drove over the barrier of sharp blades while maneuvering to try to escape from the train depot.

Please comment, suggest options, or advise if you have any discomfort with correcting the sentence as follows: 'Bond stole a Mercedes-Benz saloon car at a depot manned by antagonist soldiers, then as he tried to escape drove over barrier spikes which obliterated his tyres. So he maneuvered his vehicle's bare wheels onto the rails to pursue the train.' I won't modify the subsequent sentence: "During filming, the car had intact tyres in one scene so as to avoid any mishap.[8]"

Please comment and thank you! --H Bruce Campbell (talk) 20:46, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I revised the article sentence to: "Bond stole a Mercedes-Benz saloon car which he used to chase the train – his tires disintegrated after being slashed by a row of blades type road barrier, so Bond drove onto the rails to pursue and then jump onto the train." Please advise if this change seems inappropriate. --H Bruce Campbell (talk) 07:00, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, I revised the article sentence to my original suggestion: "Bond stole a Mercedes-Benz saloon car at a depot manned by antagonist soldiers, then as he tried to escape drove over barrier spikes which obliterated his tyres. So he maneuvered his vehicle's bare wheels onto the rails to pursue the train." Please advise if this change seems inappropriate. --H Bruce Campbell (talk) 07:11, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Cast

I've read the notice about additions to the cast list, but have taken the liberty of including some more notable characters and covered all the actors credited in the title sequence. I hope this is okay. Thanks. Carnelian10 (talk) 08:23, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

real vs fake egg

A recent edit changed "real" to "other fake" egg. The plot description only mentions a single real and single fake egg. Regardless of the breakability of the egg, there is no description of a second fake egg fabricated for this purpose. Unless mentioned otherwise in the storyline it has to be taken as being the original real egg.--☾Loriendrew☽ ☏(ring-ring) 21:53, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. Bond switched the fake egg with the real egg at the auction. He took it with him to India. There is only one fake egg. SonOfThornhill (talk) 23:42, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

Where does 009 die?

I just edited the corresponding part of the article. It claimed 009 dies in East Berlin. In my opinion, that is not true. 009's escape from the knife throwing henchmen takes us from the circus to a forrest and from there towards a guarded river (suggestive of the inner-German border) where he is hit by a knife and falls into the river. I assume that is where he floats to West Berlin. Then, we see him climbing out of the river and draging himself forward. At that point, there is a cut and the following shot establishes the setting of cars pulling up the driveway of a representative mansion in the background. In the foreground, we see a big sign that reads "RESIDENCE OF THE BRITISH AMBASSADOR / RESIDENZ DES BRITISCHEN BOTSCHAFTERS". Incidentally, this scene is shot at (what was then and still is now) the actual residence located at Berlin Grunewald, which has 009 dying in West Berlin. Nicofs (talk) 16:28, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

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GAR request

An editor has requested a GAR reassessment for this article and I am inclined to agree with them. There are many citation needed tags that need dealing with for a start. There are some talented editors in the contribution history, so I will see if anyone is interested in fixing the issues before opening a formal reassessment. It is also part of a good topic so there might be extra motivation to get it up to scratch. @Ultraviolet scissor flame, SchroCat, Dr. Blofeld, K1Bond007, El Greco, Igordebraga, Betty Logan, and VanTucky:. AIRcorn (talk) 21:31, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Octopussy/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

An editor has requested a GAR reassessment for this article and I am inclined to agree with them. There are many citation needed tags that need dealing with for a start and much more that needs citing as well. AIRcorn (talk) 23:15, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Started fixing the article. igordebraga ≠ 05:14, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

• @Igordebraga: I will be away for two weeks soon so if you have any specific questions can you let me know in the next few days. Otherwise I will look back at it when I get back. Cheers AIRcorn (talk) 01:14, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

What is the status here. Some work has been done, but more is needed. It has been a month since I started the GAR, six weeks since I mentioned it on the talk page and two years since it was tagged for a GAR request. I am thinking it might be better to delist and allow renomination, rather than keep this open. AIRcorn (talk) 10:49, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

I just fixed the "citation needed" and added more content. Anything else? igordebraga ≠ 15:18, 9 May 2018 (UTChe

The lead needs to be expanded with some reception. However citations remain the main problem. The casting is referenced to a documentary by MGM studios. As well as being a nightmare to check it is far from an ideal source for this information. It should not be hard to find information about a film with this level of cult status. I taggged some more, but was hoping more for someone to get it up to standard without me covering the article with citation needed tags and pointing out every little problem. We have unfinished sentences The first draft was delivered n, there are too many long quotes in the reception section (Danny Perry in particular) and things like eight worse etc are meaningless without some context (eight worse out of eight or even ten is pretty good). This actually needs someone willing to read the article and make it good, not just check some boxes. AIRcorn (talk) 11:42, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

The documentary is an extra on the film's DVD, it might not be readily available but it is a reliable source (lots of movie articles use such material as references). I'll check the reception section later. igordebraga ≠ 06:30, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry I still have issues with the source. The whole section is referenced to this DVD extra. There are no times give in the reference so the only way to verify the information is to watch the whole thing. I can't find a copy online, but am happy to assume good faith if you have it. This seems like a section that can have higher quality sources. Also there is things like Sybil Danning was announced in Prevue magazine in 1982 as being Octopussy, but was never actually cast. I find it unlikely that this is said on a DVD extra and this raise doubts about other information in cast. Again if you have access to the source and can confirm this is actually in there then that would put my mind at ease. AIRcorn (talk) 20:14, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

The documentary talks much about the actors, though the magazine part did need another source, thanks for the heads-up. Will finish off the reception part soon. igordebraga ≠ 05:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• Okay, this has been open long enough and has vastly improved. I still have a few reservations, but feel it meets our criteria. So I am going to close it as keep. Thanks for the work. AIRcorn (talk) 06:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Precredits teaser

The precredits teaser is missing from the plor Theking2 (talk) 20:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

How is it important to the plot? DonQuixote (talk) 21:06, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

George MacDonald Frasier

Hi:

For anyone familiar with George MacDonald Frasier's books, the outrageous plot, high adventure and comedey in Octopussy are all hallmarks of the Flashman books. Frasier's contribution, particularly the Indian setting, rates mention in the article. I think Frasier commented on his experiences writing Octopussy in sundry interviews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.185.87 (talk) 01:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I noted in the trivia section that Fraser co-wrote the screenplay, and cited him as the author of the Flashman series. Like his screenplay for his book "Royal Flash," he tends to indulge his taste for slapstick, bawdy humor -- I'm sure the scene where Bond trains a camera on a woman's cleavage and zooms it in and out while the machine makes the equivalent of an "ah-oogah" sound is Fraser's contribution. From the critical commentary I've read, most critics and fans found the humor in this film not only lowbrow, but not very funny. I may be wrong (and did not include this in the main page), but I think it's easily surmised that Fraser contributed much of the Indian-centered material, some of the circus material, and much of the humor, and Maibaum and Wilson, whom I believe were both veterans of the Bond series, contributed the more standard plot artifices and action sequences. As with most "team-produced" screenplays, though, it's often very hard to tell where one author's work begins and another's ends. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.1.255.77 (talk) 04:52, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect image for "12 foot jet"

The image is of a "BD-5B built, owned and flown by retired USAF pilot Dan Ross. The scoop under the fuselage identifies this as being Rotax powered." The correct image should be the one of the BD-5J N3038V. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bd5j.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.148.21.205 (talk) 19:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Found this:

A black opal worth over £1 million is to go on display at an East Staffordshire jewellery shop. The stone, which is known as "Octopussy" was mined at Australia's Lightning Ridge, by Englishman John Wheeler. [1]

Supposedly this octopussy is bigger than the family jewels of the Queen. Femto 21:25, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)