Talk:Off-roading/Archives/2013

Merge?

Off-road and Off-roading do seem to cover different topics... the former is about general issues common to everything from mountain biking to Enduro to rallying... the latter is currently more about sports involving 4WD automobiles using low range gears. Since they cover somewhat different topics, it doesn't seem imperative that they be merged. --Interiot 05:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Are they the right terms? I suspect the different topics are a matter of chance rather than being by design. Have a look at offroading - it actually is a disambiguation topic for off-road and off-road racing of all things. Also, note that off-road even uses the term "off-roading" in its image caption. A much better article could be written by combining all three: offroading, offroad racing and off-road. Stevage 16:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

If a new article is written describing 4x4 vehicle use of the term off-roading, I would also suggest to include off-road park to the article. Mtxchevy 13:02, 17 July 2006

I redirected the disambiguation page to this article. Off-road racing could be a section in this article as it stands now, but I'm sure it could easily grow into a full article. —Michael Z. 2006-08-01 06:20 Z

Car Centric

surely the phrase "off roading" includes over half of motorcycle sport, plus presumable (pedal) bikes and possible other forms of transport - IMHO the article is just talking about cars...... Pickle 19:09, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Other forms of sports that take place 'off road' typically have their own, specific, names ; Motocross, BMX, Mountain Biking, and so on. As far as I'm aware, Off Road 4x4 Driving is the only category to which the term "Off Roading" is just about universally applied, and I'd imagine that the majority of readers would associate the term with 4x4 vehicles, rather than any other form of transportation.. Just my opinion, though. AndrewH 12:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

IMHO in a motorcycling context it means all forms of sport (and non sport, such as greenlaneing) that aren't on tarmac - ie MX (inc SX, beachcross, etc), Enduro (inc H&H, Rally Raids, etc), Trials and Track Racing (Flat Track, Oval, Long Track, Grass Track, etc)

Off road vehicles

Why do you keep removing the section about noise pollution? Noise pollution is real. The Wilderness Society is a real organization, and a prominent one. Your constant removal of useful information is non-constructive. All of the claims included in the article are cited. The one to which you object cites several scientific journals. Do you think that they're invalid just because they're not on the Internet? I think you're being a little overzealous.Hammbeen 01:22, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

It’s simple. You site scientific sources when making scientific claims just like every other article on wikipedia. All you have done is provided links to snippets of unsourced information and then assert factually as if wikipedia's own opinion. Just because I can maintain a NPOV doesn’t make me overzealous. When I get time, I will rework the section myself using credible factual scientific data from a NPOV.--I already forgot 13:03, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Your assertion is intentionally incorrect or ill-conceived. The Wilderness Society link may be uncredited, but it is not portrayed as fact. However, the second link has several cited sources, including numerous major universities. It should stay. You are being overzealous.

How can you have NPOV if you disallow legitimate criticism? Hammbeen 15:10, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The criticism has not been removed. Only the factually incorrect information. This is an international article that applies to all types of off-road use around the globe. You are generalizing and using this article as a platform for political assertions used in land use debates and I'm simply trying to help keep your entry neutral. Your accusation of calling me overzealous for trying to keep an accurate and NPOV article is typical of the types who are pushing a POV and will not stand for changes made to their entries and only wish for others to walk in lock-step with their ideas. Like I said, I'm an environmentalist and an off-road vehicle user but I edit wikipedia articles as a wikipedian and nothing more. I wish you could do the same.--I already forgot 17:14, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Your insistence that an article with numerous citations of scientific studies is "factually incorrect" is a clear example of your overzealousness. You have also done nothing to resolve the "factually incorrect" information, except to state it is as such, like an end-all authority, even though the citation in question cites numerous studies performed by respected universities and others.

The fact that you are an ORV user clouds your judgment. I appreciate now that you're doing more to edit, not just remove material to which you disagree, but you certainly repeatedly removed an entire section about "noise pollution" as if it didn't exist. An NPOV article contains both sides of the story. My effort to make this NPOV is no different from yours, and we're both trying to do the same thing, just from different perspectives. Hammbeen 17:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Moved discussion about off-road park to that page's talk page. Mtxchevy 18:42, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Notable Examples

I deleted VW from the list of notable examples of manufacturers of off-road vehicles. The car has existed for 110 years, VW has been building the Touareg for about 3 of them, and it hardly qualifies as a notable off-roader. Dino246 10:46, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The VW Beetle was the basis for the low classes off-road racing back in the SODA (series), so I strongly disagree. See the Baja Bug article. I pitted for one once back in the 1980s. Royalbroil 14:47, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

The fact that people converted Beetles into off-roaders doesn't make VW a notable manufacturer of off-road vehicles. Any number of companies have manufactured millions more off-roaders than Volkswagen have and none of them are notable manufacturers of off-roaders either. If VW qualifies for a specific mention then what about Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Nissan, Hyundai, Suzuki, Ssanyong, BMW, Subaru, Volvo..? Personally I'd reduce the list to Land-Rover, Jeep, AMGeneral and Toyota. None of the others are notable for their off-roaders, they just happen to produce one or two. Dino246 20:44, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I see your point. You have my support for changing the list. Royalbroil 22:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-recreational off-roading

I was looking for an article on off-roading in general and all I can find is an article on recreational off-roading, which is not what I was thinking of. Maybe off-roading is not the right word; it's more like 'rough-roading', something that is quite common in many countries, especially in Africa, but also on farms elsewhere. Is there (or should there) be an article on this, and if not, should this article then not be made more generic, with the recreational variety being just a (very big) subsection? DirkvdM 06:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. Whether it should be another article or it should be part of this article depends on how much material you have. The off-road vehicles portion could be part of the larger scope article. Royalbroil 13:41, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't have much material on it - I just wanted to look it up. I'll add a bit to the intro, see what you think. It's not quite perfect, but meant as a start that someone more knowledgeable can expand on. DirkvdM 10:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

2CV

The 2CV isn't really an off-road vehicle. It was designed to be driveable on unpaved roads and the brief famously stated that it had to let a farmer drive across his field carrying eggs without them breaking. This is more about comfort on non-smooth surfaces than true off-roading. I don't mind the 2CV being mentioned but it really should be an example of what an off-roader isn't. The Land Rover was a an off-roader designed for farmers, the 2CV was a family car designed for farmers. Dino246 06:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

What is off-roading? It's driving off (paved) roads, right? The 2CV is designed specifically for that, so I'd say it fits the bill. As I mentioned in the previous thread, the article was specifically about recreational off-roading, but the term covers much more, so I expanded it a bit. But it could do with more. See next thread. DirkvdM 10:23, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Expanding the article

As a follow-up to the above two threads, the article could do with some new sections. Such as how well various cars that are not specially designed for it perform on rough terrain. And what sorts of terrain there are. There's mud, sand, rocks, water (river crossings) and what else? And a section on what is desirable for off-roading, such as diff lock, shift to lower gears (what's that called?), 4wd, snorkel, sand ladders and what else? There's a section on vehicle modification, but that's rather too specific. Several vehicles (such as trucks) come out of the factory with several of these 'gimmicks'. There's a strong emphasis on recreational off-roading, but for many off-roading is a necessity. So there could be a list of those too. There's park rangers, farmers, truckers, police, army, tourist truck drivers (the origin of my personal experience, in Africa), and what else? DirkvdM 10:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

These all sound like reasonable additions to the article. I am concerned that "how well various cars that are not specially designed for it perform on rough terrain" would be Original Research and/or Point of View. I am familiar with Off-roading mainly from the racing perspective only, so I unfortunately won't be helpful except checking for Neutral Point of View. Royalbroil 12:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Erosion

Ref for man made erosion. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crusty Boogers (talk • contribs) 15:37, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Truck Trials

Where is the section on truck trials that are so popular in Europe? - KitchM (talk) 03:01, 21 March 2013 (UTC)