Talk:Olga Spessivtseva

Recommended move

I see no rationale for spelling her name with a -tzeva rather than a -tseva. The Russian ц is rendered as "ts" in English, and that's how it usually appears in English language texts. There are more than twice as many google hits for Spessivtseva than Spessivtzeva. I appreciate that her name was sometimes spelled with the z, but the standard way is with the s, and that's what most people would look for in a search.

I recommend we move it back to Olga Spessivtseva and adjust all the "z" spellings in the article. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

No responses after 4 months? I'm requesting it be moved. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was Moved.
— V = I * R (talk) 06:37, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

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Olga Spessivtzeva → Olga Spessivtseva — The Russian ц is rendered as "ts" in English, and that's how it usually appears in English language texts. There are more than twice as many google hits for Spessivtseva than Spessivtzeva. Most people would look for Spessivtseva in a search, rather than Spessivtzeva. I would regard this as an uncontroversial move, but the fact that it's already been moved from Spessivtseva to Spessivtzeva means that it's potentially controversial. JackofOz (talk) 06:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Isn't there a Russian (or Cryllic, or whatever) style guide somewhere? I know that there is one for Japanese at least, so I suspect that there is a Russian one somewhere.
— V = I * R (talk) 11:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, indeed: Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian – People.

Paras 1 and 2 don't seem to apply in this case.

Para 3 says:

• If the person is the subject of English-language publications, the spelling predominantly used in such publications should be used. A preference is given to publications in the area in which the person specializes.

Para 4 says:

• Selecting the most frequently used variant based on a search engine test is not acceptable.

So, we can’t use the Google search I referred to above. But we can look at reputable biographies of her, none of which I have.

Para 5 says:

• When in doubt, use WP:RUS, which I interpret as an instruction to use the Romanization table shown below the instructions. There, the only allowed romanization of ц is "ts".

I would suggest that if the "tz" variant were widespead (it's all but unknown, by the way, generally speaking), we’d probably be referring to Tzar Nicholas II, etc. That is virtually never seen, except from someone who simply doesn’t know the usual conventions and is making it up as they go along; or copying someone else who made this error; or confusing Czar (the usual U.S. variant) with Tsar (the preference of the rest of the anglosphere) and coming up with their own hybrid. I’m sure this sort of thing accounts for the various references to Spessivtzeva out there. -- JackofOz (talk) 14:23, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Based on my own reading of WP:RUS and the reasoning you've given above, I can agree to this proposal. Note that there should be a redirect from "Olga Spessivtzeva". That form of romanization may not (no longer?) be common, but even I know that it isn't unheard of (I've seen English sources that use "Tzar" in the past, although I agree that it isn't as common).
— V = I * R (talk) 14:38, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I support the move, with a redirect from the current name, and having it listed as an alternate spelling on the main page. - AKeen (talk) 15:23, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

• Support, although the tz variant is used: see 230 Google Books hits, compared to 246 hits for the ts variant. Since both spellings seem to be widely used, I think we should prefer the standard transliteration. Jafeluv (talk) 11:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Moved

Since there was a consensus - I have moved the page - and there are proper redirects from alternate transliterations. - AKeen (talk) 13:56, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:21, 26 March 2020 (UTC)