Talk:Omagh bombing/Archives/2008/10

Bill Clinton

The article fails to mention Bill Clinton's visit to Omagh shortly after the bombing.Not only was he the first American president to visit Northern Ireland,he was also the first to display interest in The Troubles.--jeanne (talk) 13:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

He visited Northern Ireland long before Omagh, and I don't see the relevance. If you're that concerned, add it yourself. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 14:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry ONIH, I'd forgotten he visited Fermanagh where some of his ancestors came from.I think it is important that he visited Omagh-perhaps I'lljeanne (talk) 15:44, 8 April 2008 (UTC) add it later.

Clinton claims that some of his ancestors came from Fermanagh. There is no proof of this, and the locals are fairly cynical about the claim, though he is keen to advance it. In contrast, Tony Blair, whose mother was Irish born and bred, rarely mentions it. This is not to detract in any way from the good work both Clinton and Blair did in bringing peace to the north. Millbanks (talk) 16:39, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Millbanks, what does this have to do with his visit to Omagh following the bombing? I really fail to see the relevance Clinton's ancestry has with the bombing. I mentioned his ancestry as a trivial aside over 6 months ago. The point I'd made was that he was the first US president to visit Northern Ireland. Why the big deal about my comment about having Fermanagh ancestors? Did I insult anyone? Also, Millbanks, I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from inserting words into my comments. Thanks.--jeanne (talk) 17:36, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. You make various good points. Clinton's ancestry, real or purported, has little to do with this article. And yes, I shouldn't have inserted words into your comments. But simply to state that some of Clinton's ancestors came from Fermanagh is not accurate, or rather not proven. I'm happy to continue this discussion, but I think we'd both agree that this page is not the place for it. Millbanks (talk) 19:13, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I had commented on Talk:Irish-American, but it seems an editor didn't approve of my remarks, so has deleted them. I would be willimg to discuss this further on aforesaid talk page, but I would have to maintain a constant vigil as to the appropriate PC language I employ lest certain editors find my words offensive. I'll give it another try, anyway. Thank you.--jeanne (talk) 06:05, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

There was the famous visit to Belfast when he shook hands with Gerry Adams, that was well before Omagh. Indeed, it was in 1995, see here. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 15:55, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

List of victims

The names of the bomb victims should be listed in the article. Instead of having to link onto another site, a reader should be able to find the names here in the Wikipedia article. Do any of the editors agree with me that the list should be included especially as the tenth anniversary of the bombing has just passed ?--jeanne (talk) 07:42, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I think an external link to the memorial would suffice. This is encyclopedic to give some background information of which people can pursue it elsewhere. At any rate, the article should be extending on to too large a size needlessly. It's reasonable now. Lihaas (talk) 16:14, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

If other editors agree with me, I really do think there should be a list of the dead. But I'll wait until I get some feedback from others before I do anything, ok?--jeanne (talk) 17:16, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

There should definitely be a list of the dead. Mooretwin (talk) 23:08, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Mooretwin, do you want to go ahead and put it up or shall I?--jeanne (talk) 06:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I put it up.How does it look? I just included the ages alongside the names. Do you think their religions or occupations should be included?--jeanne (talk) 06:37, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Looks fine. If you have their religions and occupations it might be useful information. Mooretwin (talk) 07:10, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

See WP:NOTMEMORIAL. BigDunc^Talk 08:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

It says not a memorial for friends and relatives, BigDunc. These were victims of the deadliest bombing in Northern Ireland. Surely, they are notable.--jeanne (talk) 08:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

This sounds callous but they are not notable enough to warrant an article on the individuals concerned Subjects of encyclopedia articles must be notable besides being fondly remembered. everyone agrees that this was a despicable act that in no way furthered the cause of republicanism in fact probably damaged it. Also this discussion about lists of the dead has been covered numerous times on various different articles. BigDunc^Talk 12:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

No, BigDunc, you are not being callous, just stating a sad fact. The Omagh victims were mostly young and never had a chance to become notable. I still believe they should be listed but will abide by Wikipedia policy. Yes, I agree it did damage republicanism and also gave an extremely negative impression abroad about the Irish. BigDunc, after ten years, the bomb angers me tremendously so much so that it's hard for me to maintain a neutral POV. Sorry.--jeanne (talk) 13:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_publisher_of_original_thought Lihaas (talk) 16:32, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

There had been an external link to the list of victims, as agreed after the last time the list of victims was removed, but it seems that it was excised at some stage. I've added it back in to the external links, along with a link to the Omagh Support & Self Help Group. Bastun^{BaStun not BaTsun} 17:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

This external link (http://www.omaghbomb.co.uk/ Omagh Support & Self Help Group) doesn't quite fit into the EL guidelines because this site is on the bombing. Wikipedia guidelines say those indirectly related links should stay out. One of the reasons is to cut down the links that generally accumulate (and there hordes that just keep building it.

In some sense, even the list of victims would be pushing it. ("Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum. A lack of external links, or a small number of external links is not a reason to add external links.") Lihaas (talk) 03:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Exactly what is your point, Lihaas? I'm having great difficulty in understanding what you are attempting to say in regards to the external link which directly relates to the Omagh bombing victims.--jeanne (talk) 06:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

There are related discussions here, here and here. --Domer48_'fenian' 17:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Main Street or "the" main street?

When the person called in the warning to Ulster Television, is it possible they said "the main street" and not "Main Street"? Seeing as there is no such street in Omagh called Main Street, and besides, that name is used primarily in America not Ireland. In Ireland and Britain, the name "High Street" is preferred, and in fact, is the name of the street which leads up to the courthouse in Omagh, where the bomb was said to have been, according to the warning. It's very possible that Margaret Hall, who has admitted she found it hard to understand the caller, failed to detect that word "the", because had she relayed the information with the main street as the site of the bomb, the police would have had to assume the bomb could be anywhere along the main street in Omagh which includes Market Street as well as High Street. The RUC presumed that Main Street was mistakenly given for the correct High Street, especially as they mentioned the courthouse. However, to someone unfamiliar with Omagh's streets, the caller could have meant that the bomb was located on the main street of Omagh where the courthouse was. I have visited Omagh. That "main street" which begins as Market Street and leads up to High Street is really very short. It would have been easy for the caller to mistake the distance from Lower Market Street to the courthouse. The caller never said in his call that the bomb was AT the courthouse, he gave a specified distance, which changed at the subsequent call.--jeanne (talk) 06:45, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

According to the timeline at [1] there were three warning calls, which were described as follows:

• 1430 - A man phones Ulster Television (UTV) newsroom with a bomb warning. 'There's a bomb, courthouse, Omagh, main street, 500lb, explosion 30 minutes.' The caller gives the recognised codeword used by the Real IRA.
• 1432 - Samaritans office in Coleraine called with another warning. 'Am I through to Omagh? This is a bomb warning. It's going to go off in 30 minutes.' Caller said bomb was 200 yards from courthouse. He also gave the codeword.
• 1435 - UTV receives another phone warning. 'Bomb, Omagh town, 15 minutes.' Two of these warnings were phoned from a callbox in Forkhill, south Armagh. The third was phoned from a phone box in Newtownhamilton, also in south Armagh.

Of these, only the first mentions the phrase "main street". Similar information is found here [2], as well as a transcript of Margaret Halls' call to the emergency phone line. Her phrasing in that call is open to the interpretation that the orginal call didn't use "Main street" as a name but a description - however it doesn't rule it out either. Autarch (talk) 19:11, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

In the telephoned statement the RIRA made to the office of a Dublin newspaper days after the bombing, the caller said that they had given the location (for the bomb) as 300 to 400 yards on THE main street and at no time was the courthouse mentioned. This comes from "Omagh Aftermath: Fury after Real IRA apologises". The Independent 19 August 1998--jeanne (talk) 12:48, 3 October 2008 (UTC)