Talk:Operation Hiram
 | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. |
Untitled
editIs the list of "Palestinian communities captured in Operation Hiram" complete? In particular, I´m looking for Kafr Bir'im and Safad. Shouldn´t they be added to the list? Regards, Huldra 02:23, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
This link is tentative; see discussion beginning 8 December 2006 at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history.
Need References!!
editBuckshot06 20:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
"People in this area were also subjected to massacres. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram (in the north, in October 1948): at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sa'sa'. In Operation Hiram there was an unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion." References of this are needed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yairgoldfeder (talk • contribs) 18:37, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
POV Propaganda
editthe Arab League's proxy "Arab Liberation Army" isn't mentioned until paragraph four. It had been shooting up Jewish communities throughout the Galil for most of a year. Gee, and maybe an article about Nazi Germany also won't mention him until paragraph four. This article reminds me of Edward Said's book on the war, which never mentions the Grand Mufti at all. In fact, this whole thing seems to be another Wikiganda stunt to absolve the Arabs, local Arabs and the Arab countries in general, of responsibility for their own actions.68.111.71.197 (talk) 00:42, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Indeed these article is completely worthless as an unbiased historical account. Though the ALA is now mentioned, it is not mentioned that on 22 October ALA attacked Manara and had isolated Manara and Misgav Am. Appeals to the UN did not help and the local Carmeli forces were unable to repel the attacks. The purpose of the Israeli operation was to eliminate the ALA, that was the "enemy" to be cleared in the Operational Mission. A single source (Morris) is quoted for most of the article which is made to read as though the operation had the intent of removing all the Arabs, who had been minding their own business. The contention concerning ethnic cleansing is contradicted by two irrefutable facts - villages such as Maghar and Jish remained and the IDF did not kick out the inhabitants of Ikrit and Birim, though they were certainly not treated right. There were initially no orders to maltreat civilians. Weitz's rantings are probably irrelevant as Weitz had no military authority. People who served in Operation Hiram dispute the massacre reports. The two telegrams of Carmeli, which came very late, could not have been responsible for alleged massacres that took place earlier and in any case, Morris has been known to distort historical evidence. Morris himself admits in his article "Correcting an Error" that there was no systematic ethnic cleansing and that villages remained, and that the telegrams, which were somewhat contradictory by his account, did not result in systematic ethnic cleansing. [[Mewnews (talk) 08:37, 28 August 2009 (UTC)]]
It was marked by several mass-killings of civilians.
editOver twenty years ago when I started reading about 1948 one of my eye-popping moments was how many "mass-killings" took place in the couple of days during which Operation Hiram swept across what is now Northern Israel. I think the sentence "It was marked by several mass-killings of civilians." should remain in the introduction. Anyone agree? Padres Hana (talk) 20:34, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Arab communities captured in Operation Hiram
editThe vast majority of the Arab communities listed do not have a source. Where was this taken from? How can we find the source? PasterofMuppets (talk) 20:01, 31 October 2017 (UTC)
Subjects of controversy
editMy recent edits on this topic have been subject to frequent vandalism and revert edits. Please discuss any concerns or issues about these edits on this talk page before making changes or reverts. The points of controversy seem to be focused on the following:
- Why is the notion of massacre or mass killings important? As noted by our fellow wikipedian Padres Hana ten years ago, historians agree that this operation is characterized by numerous "mass killings" and massacres. Benny Morris, a prominent New historian and Israeli professor who has studied this conflict, also used these terms. Furthermore, many of the IDF higher-ups involved were tried in Israeli courts, albeit without real consequences, for their roles in these massacres.
Moreover, these edits should not be subject to reverse as per WP:ARBECR for Padres Hana already pushed them on the 25th of September 2013 and were discretly erased by PasterofMuppets on the 24th of October.
- Characterizing the incidents at Safsaf and Jish as massacres: Many historians and consulted references support this characterization. This should not be a matter of controversy, as there are already Wikipedia pages referencing "massacres" for these villages. GLaTrace (talk) 16:32, 16 August 2024 (UTC)