Talk:Order No. 270

Irrelevant information

The following text tells nothing about Order 270. Perhaps it would be appropriate in article Russuan prisoners of war but not here. Capture of Yakov Dzhugashvili also has nothing to do with this order.

Stalin's son, Yakov Dzhugashvili, served in the Red Army and was captured by the Germans after this order was issued. They offered to exchange him for Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus, but Stalin turned the offer down, allegedly saying "A lieutenant is not worth a general"; others credit him with saying "I have no son."[1] Molotov quotes him saying that "All these boys are my sons."

According to some research, nearly 80 per cent of Russian workers and prisoners of war returning from Germany were sent to forced labour, some given fifteen to twenty-five years of 'corrective labour', others sent off to hard labour; all were categorized as 'socially dangerous'."[2] Soviet Union collapse in 1991 made Soviet archives available for historians. According to their data, the overall increase of the Gulag population was minimal during 1945-46 [3]. 3,246,000 of repatriated Soviet POWs and civilians (out of 5,917,000) returned to civilian life, 1,645,000 were drafted, 338,000 found guilty (most of them were liberated by 1953) and about half a million remained in Western countries [4].

Biophys (talk) 17:27, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

A little bit incorrect

I just red the original text of the order and I would say the phrase :"The order demanded anyone deserting or surrendering to be killed on the spot, and subjected their families to arrest and their wives sent to labor camps. Doing this ensured his army would fight to the death." is simply a false. According to of the original text:
1. Any commanders an commissars who tears away their insignia and deserting or surrendering should be considered malicious deserters, and their families should be arrested. Note, the first paragraph relates only to those commanders who consciously prepared to surrender. Nothing was said in the original text about a further fate of family members, by the way.
2. Soldiers were ordered to fight for death and anyone who attempted to surrender should be executed. In that case, their family members should be deprived of pension. Nothing was said about any additional sanctions. I am intended to bring the article into accordance with the original text. --Paul Siebert (talk) 16:12, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Fundamentally poor translation

I didn't get past the first phrase before it became obvious that the translation is really, really bad.

"Не только друзья признают,но и враги наши вынуждены признать"

Might be translated "It is not only admitted by our friends, but our enemies must also admit..."

Other stylings are legitimate as well for example "recognized" and so forth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.121.73.254 (talk) 15:43, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I re-translated the first paragraph - and I broke up the paragraphs to match the wikisource document, to make cross reference a touch easier. Painful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.121.73.254 (talk) 16:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Reference for "only traitors" dubious

The only reference cited for Stalin's "there are no Soviet POWs, only traitors" is highly dubious. It cites no sources, and in general it seems biased and poorly researched. For example, it also claims Order 227 forbid any kind of retreat, "even tactical", but this is absurdly and demonstrably false and no historian believes this. History shows the Soviets did plenty of tactical retreats, before, during and after 227 was redacted. What was forbidden was a *general* (not tactical) retreat *without orders*. The referenced article is simply plain wrong. 181.166.95.2 (talk) 13:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)