Talk:Order of Gimghoul/Archive 1

Archive 1

Hippol Castle

The whole part about Glandon Forest, Knights and miscreants seems odd. If the point is to describe the legend of the Gimghouls, then that should be stated more clearly; otherwise it comes across as a statement of fact, and I would doubt the veracity of it lacking documentation. PElliot 00:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Record of Inventory

Order of Gimghoul Records, 1832-1997: http://www.lib.unc.edu/mss/uars/ead/40262.html

unsourced

I tagged it with a prod because there were no sources. There still are no sources. If there are no third party sources for notability how will anyone know it's important? I challenge you to get some in. Friendly challenge. DGG (talk) 06:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a photo of Hippol Castle, there is an inventory of Gimghoul records available through the university. In fact, it's posted just above your message! It is listed in the Registry of Castles and the North Carolina Historical Society. In fact, it is supposed to be one of 16 true castles in the U.S. As for actual sources, you'll have to venture into Glandon Forest in the dark of night to try and interview a mythical knight!

Remember, those who know don't tell. Gimghoul27 21:29, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Alas, whereof man will not speak, thereof an article cannot be written. Unpublished sources are not considered accessible for WP purposes. If you cant find anything published, the article on the society is a little hard to sustain. will have to go--but perhaps you could write one on the Castle and mention the society? DGG (talk) 06:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

There are many published articles on both the castle and the Order. Just Google "Order of Gimghoul" and you'll find them. Also, as I mentioned, you can find other sources within the university. Presumably, if you want to go to the trouble, you can seek out the records held by the University; they release them after 50 years. You can then seek out a living Knight of the Order for verification purposes...of course, he won't talk! Gimghoul27 12:23, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I am removing the PROD as there are now (and possibly were) sources listed, most notably the archives of the University itself from the LRW Library. SuMadre (talk) 22:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was do not merge (non-admin closure) Artichoke2020 (talk) 03:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge to List of collegiate secret societies?

The is a section Society systems in North American colleges and universities that I think it would be ideal to merge this to along with the picture of the castle. Something like:

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University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

The library at the university contains the archives of the Order of Gimghoul, a secret society headquartered at the Gimghoul Castle. The order was founded in 1889 by Robert Worth Bingham, Shepard Bryan, William W. Davies, Edward Wray Martin, and Andrew Henry Patterson, who were students at the time.

The society is open to "notable" male students (rising juniors and higher), and faculty members by invitation. The society centers itself around the legend of Peter Dromgoole, a student who mysteriously disappeared from the UNC campus in 1833. The founders originally called themselves the Order of Dromgoole, but later changed it to the Order of Gimghoul, "in accord with midnight and graves and weirdness," according the archives.

Tradition has it that the order held to the "Dromgoole legend and the ideals of Arthurian knighthood and chivalry." From all accounts, the order is social in nature, and has no clandestine agenda. Membership and information about the Order is strictly confidential as is access to archives less than 50 years old.

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Footnotes would be:

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-- Artichoke2020 (talk) 18:53, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

• • Object to merge. Since such a large portion of this article contains information regarding the Castle, it is more than just an article on a secret society. I have not seen a viable argument set forth that justifies such drastic change of nearly 3 years worth of improvements by the editors of this article. SuMadre (talk) 19:49, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
    • • But if you read the section on the castle it doesn't actually say anything concrete that couldn't be summed up in one sentence. The edit history doesn't show a great deal of change, really, so I don't think time is an issue. I think someone should be bold. Artichoke2020 (talk) 20:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
        • I find it odd that out of what appears to be nearly 50 entries in the list you cite - List of collegiate secret societies, the OoG has been singled out for AfD/Merge. If you compare the Gimghoul entry with most of the other articles linked from this list, you will find this one has as many if not more sources listed therein. Do you think that every other article on this list of 50 or so should be put up for AfD/Merge for the same reasons as this one? (to wit: It is not notable since a secret society, by the very definition is difficult to verify?) I believe this quite a weak argument for an entry such as Gimghoul, which is so well sourced. (Note: I have placed this comment on the AfD page as well) SuMadre (talk) 20:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
• Object - Object to merge. The subject is notable in its own right. No need to merge. Instead, add more information. Remember (talk) 21:37, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

• Further Comment - The time people are taking up trying to delete this article could better be used by trying to find more information to put into this article. In a two minute google book search, I've already come up with another source and information to add here [1] and if someone was industrious they could obtain the directory of the order of the gimghoul mentioned here [2]. There is no reason to delete this article or merge it. Remember (talk) 21:42, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

If those sources an't good enough, what about this source link? Again, I found this in about 4 minutes. Could we please spend some time actually researching this before we merge it off. Remember (talk) 12:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, I have found another source in yet again a 5 minute search. See here link As stated in the source: The castle was built as a meeting place for the Order of Gimghoul, a still-existing secret society of noted UNC students and alumni. Construction began in the fall of 1924 and cost about $50,000. Although the structure is accessible from Gimghoul Road, it remains a mystery, inspiring nearly a century of folklore. "It's a mystical thing that's been part of the University for about 100 years," said Roland Giduz, a UNC alumnus and Chapel Hill resident who has researched the castle. "It's part of the heritage of the University....Giduz said Gimghouls have historically been prominent students, professors and alumni. "There was the idea that it was a very high fraternity in Chapel Hill, in terms of prestige," he said. Past members include prominent alumni J.C. Ehringhaus, William Rand Kenan Jr., Frank Porter Graham and William Donald Carmichael.

Again, can we spend more time researching this and less time trying to delete it or merge it down. There is lots of information to be found on this and I think I have shown that it is a notable organization. Remember (talk) 15:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"the appearance of pre-Norman-England-style castle"

"The article notes "giving it the appearance of pre-Norman-England-style castle." Sorry, but I don't think it looks much like any pre-Norman fortification. It could be argued that only the Romans built substantial stone fortifications before the Normans in England, and in a very different style to this. Apart from that, fortifications were built of timber. "Castles" in the medieval sense of the word were introduced to England by the Normans, so I am not sure what the expression "pre-Norman-England-style castle" means? I think this is a romantic expression which needs removing.--mgaved (talk) 20:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

"incorporated by Charles Hagan III wife of NC Senator Kay Hagan."

I think that should be husband, not wife. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.97.229.47 (talk) 03:34, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

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