Talk:Order of the Spur

Types of Spurs

What source is this information taken from, specifically the "wear and appearance of Stetsons and Spurs"? There is no Army-wide reg dealling with spurs, only local regs. For instance, many styles of spurs are authorized, not just the "prince of Wales" spur. -- 72.178.133.52

I posted most the material on this entry, but I am by no means a cavalry expert. If anyone has more knowledge on this matter please modify this entry. (Atfyfe 23:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC))

---It should be noted that the specifics of the spur ride, the pins worn on the hat, and the type of spurs all differ from unit to unit. My squadron wore Prince of Wales spurs, while I met other cavalry troopers who wore spurs patterned after the late-1800s era US Army spurs. --SFC, USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.192.0.4 (talk) 15:52, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Foreign Armies

Hi all, great article this is, but i would like to add 2 comments:

The order of the spur has also been given to foreign armies troopers. I recieved mine (German Bundeswehr 5th Armored Recce Btl.) in 1992 from (former) 3rd Sqd/11th ACR and remember the (autumn) ride to be the most challenging/exhaustive/daring time in my life. We recieved spurs (but no Stetson naturally).

The photo doesnt show "Prince of Wales" type spurs but a more "regional" variety?

Gretings to all, --Allons! 17:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely correct. Many troopers today grew up on Spaghetti Westerns and prefer a more western spur. I happen to wear Prince of Wales. --Born2flie 12:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

The photo of DCU"S and spur's show the 1911 spur. That spur was the spur of choice during the civle war. In modern times the Prince of Wales or Broken Spurs are to stand for all the troppers that died and some have even said "Yall dont ried horses any more." In any case 1911 or the Prince of Wales spur says I'm a Cavalry men I know my stuff.

Stetsons

As an Order of the Spur (Combat) holder, and present trooper in the U.S. Army's Cavalry, I have removed the erroneous Stetson information from this article. Stetsons are authorized to be worn by all Cavalry troopers upon assignment to a Cavalry unit, barring that the prerequisite "wetting" or "christening" ceremony has been accomplished. They are not conditional upon award of the Order of the Spur, and therefore, not a legitimate part of this article. --Born2flie 12:06, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Removed material about the stetson:

In the modern U.S. military, the tradition of wearing the stetson (which then grew into the order of the spur) is often credited to LTC John B. Stockton (Commander of the 3d of the U.S. 17th Cavalry Regiment) at Fort Benning, Georgia in early 1964. The hat was adopted in an effort to increase esprit de corps in the new air cavalry squadron and was meant to emulate the look of the 1876 pattern campaign hat worn by cavalry troopers long ago. Once units deployed to Vietnam, the custom slowly spread to other air cavalry units, and by the cessation of hostilities, virtually all cavalry units had adopted the cavalry stetson.

Cords for the cavalry stetson come in branch colors, here are some examples.

The cavalry hat was a private purchase item that cost a wallet-stretching $29 in 1972. It was most often supplied by the Stetson Hat Company. Because Stetson supplied most of the hats, the name "Stetson" became interchangeable with cavalry hat. However, the tradition does not call for name brand stetsons. While unit commanders did not mandate the wearing of the hats, there was considerable peer pressure to conform, and most troopers quickly added the cavalry hat to their wardrobes.

Members of B-2 /17th cavalry further garnished their stetsons with the addition of a beaded "Indian" hatband and feather; D-3/5th cavalry appears to be the only unit that wore gray cavalry stetsons. When D-3/5th Cavalry exchanged designations with C-3/17th CAV in 1971, C-3/17th carried on the "Light Horse" tradition of gray cavalry stetsons. There were also instances in which several troops of different squadrons wore the distinctive red and white background trimming-commonly referred to as a jump wing oval-on the front of the stetson. This oval was authorized for 1/17th CAV, a non-air cavalry squadron of the 82nd Airborne Division, located at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

In several units, a "wetting down" ceremony was conducted, during which the newbies were accepted as members of the cavalry troop. Before they could wear their hats, however, they were required to "chug-a-lug" a hatful of cold beer. An obvious less rigorous predecessor to the contemporary spur ride.

The cap braid (or "cap cord") is a tradition born from the 1858 service hat, which had branch-colored cords for enlisted personnel, black and metallic gold for commissioned officers, and gold for general officers. Today, it is often falsly assumed (and even codified in unit regulations), that enlisted soldiers always wear yellow braids on their stetsons. In actuality, since the cavalry stetson is most commonly worn by soldiers in the cavalry branch, yellow is simply the most common color worn. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atfyfe (talk • contribs)

I've seen infantrymen wearing a blue cord and blue acorns on their slouch hats. The use of branch-colored cords would seem to be in more keeping with tradition (even if it is a blending of hat usage, i.e. slouch hat versus later campaign hat). -- SFC, USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.192.0.4 (talk) 15:36, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Branch Specific

I am confused. If an 11B is attached to a cavalry unit can that person get spurs? I was thinking that was something 19D could be awarded. Thanks. --BenWoodruff 22:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Spurs can be awarded regardless of MOS. - Atfyfe 23:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. That is good to know. --BenWoodruff 03:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Even Commo (31R for instance) has been known to be awarded spurs, once meeting the qualifications and then completing the spur ride.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.54.8.45 (talk • contribs) 11:02, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

uncited material

What is the source for the historical claims in this article, there is no source listed. Every "spur book" simply repetes the same story and no source is cited. It sounds like a good story but, is that all it is? 84.254.189.64 03:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)Nate

I've done some research and I have to agree, that it is unsourced. The shavetail reference applies to pack mules used in the Western frontier. New and untrained mules had their manes "roached" and their tails shaved, leaving only a tassel of a tail (cultural reference for Pin the Tail on the Donkey and Eeyore?). This made them easily identifiable for the packers to avoid approaching them from the rear.(Essin, page 96) The term came to be transferred to Army Lieutenants, those from West Point in particular, and is argued to have referenced the transition from the cadet's jacket with tails, to the officer's jacket without.(Bronner, pp. 48-49)

• Essin, Emmett M. Shavetails and Bell Sharps: The History of the U.S. Army Mule. Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 2000. ISBN 9780803267404
• Bronner, Simon J. Killing Tradition: Inside Hunting and Animal Rights Controversies. Lexington, Ky: University Press of Kentucky, 2008. ISBN 9780813125282

--Born2flie (talk) 04:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

A shave tail mule or horse is one that kicks. A horse or mule may know it's job long before being sold into military service so the current explanations sound like fiction. You have to understand that mules had their tails cut in bell shapes. Each bell cut on a tail counted towards the company number. 1,2 or 3 A shave tail was a kicker so watch out, but not all new mules kick. Anyway go a head and delete this. Your unsourced fantasy stories are more important than facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.214.207 (talk) 06:30, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Rank Insignia on Stetson

In the Wear of Cavalry Stetson and Spurs section, it says, "Rank will be worn 1/8" from the bottom of the sabers, centered." Shouldn't that be 1/8" from the top of the sabers? FireHorse 17:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The order of rank and sabers is specific to the unit, as well as the wear of additional items on the stetson. --Born2flie 07:19, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Wear of Spurs in Other US Military Branches

Is the wearing of spurs authorized in other branches (Air Force, Navy, etc) for those soldiers awarded spurs before crossing over to another branch? Branch regulations? Commander's decision? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.54.8.45 (talk • contribs) 11:02, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Wear of the spurs is a tradition of the Cavalry, there is no regulation. There is also a tradition within the Army that wear of spurs or Stetson with the military uniform outside of a Cavalry unit is accomplished only by request to the Cavalry Squadron or Cavalry Brigade/Regiment Commander, and only extends to functions attended by Cavalry personnel where spurs and Stetsons are permitted to be worn. --Born2flie (talk) 03:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Candidate criteria

Is there any reference for much of this section? I know that most units establish some criteria, but my knowledge is not a verifiable source. --Born2flie (talk) 14:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Traditionally, each Trooper is presented spurs by his sponsor at a ceremonial dining in commonly referred to as the "Spur Dinner". The spurs are to be worn with the military uniform during Squadron or Regimental ceremonies and events or as designated by the Cavalry unit commander. In some units, gold spurs are awarded for combat inductions while silver spurs represent having completed the Spur Ride.

Some suggestions :

Call the 'Spur Dinner' a 'Spur Ceremony' - this almost sounds like the Troopers are EATING the Spurs, and we all know what NLPs make people susceptible to!

Bronze for ride, Silver for faux-combat, Gold for ACTUAL combat in the course of duty (i.e. an invasion by the Canadian Mounties).

Prince of Wales style spurs? OMG isn't there a famous spur manufacturer who fought the Red Coats in the WOI, that the USA could posthumusly grant a CMOH upon THEN term the spurs as (i.e. General 'Name Here' Spurs)?

"Shave Tail" is ever so vaguely 'rude' these days, suggest an alternative that can be used alongside in the presence of civvies.

Finally the photo of Rumsfeld looks like the beginning of a food fight. Any pictures that convey a better sense of gravitas WITH an entire troop of awardees standing at attention or something like that? picpaste.com/goodoldays-OvFerjHD.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.106.148.190 (talk) 22:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

That the official black beret of the Army would be replaced by stetsons is far less jocular than the army thinks. Whats with the berets? There is no way to distinguish American from European beret wearers and America is in danger of being culturally unidentifiable from Europe.

incomplete sentence

One sentence in the article reads "The cord around the Stetson, which in the past was used to assist with securing the Scout's horse to an object while the Soldier dismounted." and thus seems incomplete. Regards, Cyan22 (talk) 22:02, 21 July 2023 (UTC)