Talk:Orlando Bosch/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 12:05, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

G'day Vanamonde, this is in good shape. I have a few comments:

Thanks for taking this on. Vanamonde (Talk) 05:18, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Lead and infobox

• why no infobox? Infobox criminal?

  Added.

  Most unusual to place an infobox below a sidebar, given the article isn't about Condor, but about Bosch. Suggest placing the sidebar at the top of the CORU section. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:49, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

  Was not intentional...moved.

• suggest "Orlando Bosch Ávila (18 August 1926 – 27 April 2011)[1] was a Cuban exile militant, who headed the" to capture his main points of notability in the first sentence

  Done

• link Miami, bazooka, Venezuela, Chile, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, extradition, also link in body if not already done

  Linked some; I am under the impression that links to countries are discouraged by OVERLINK.

  You might be surprised how few people know some of these countries exist, let alone have any idea where they are. We regularly see video clips of Americans who can't pick Australia off a map of the globe, and Australia is a continent... Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 23:51, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

  Not surprised, no...more reluctant because it's not been conventional as far as I'm aware, but okay. Linked.

• "He remaineds a controversial figure"

  Done.

• the citation for the date of death in the lead shouldn't be needed. His date of death should be mentioned and cited in the Later career subsection. The other citations shouldn't be needed either, as they should covered and cited in the body

  His date of death is cited and mentioned in Personal Life, where I think it meshes well with the information about his second marriage. The citations are in the lead not because those items are not cited in the body: they certainly are. I duplicate them in the lead in essentially every article I work on on contentious topics, because I have wasted far too much of my time on Wikipedia reverted drive-by editors who remove material from the lead claiming it's uncited (this was the lates episode, only a few days ago). I think MOS:CITELEAD actually supports me in this. I agree that in many cases they can be eliminated to declutter the lead, but I don't think this is one of those cases.

I see no evidence that there has been recent disruption of this article in that respect. We all deal with drive-by deletions and tagging, who on earth is going to challenge his date of death? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

It's not for the date of death, though, it's for the attorney general's quote, and for the assessment in the final sentence in general.

fn 1 only cites his full name and dates of birth and death. All are covered in the body, so it just isn't needed. I can see an argument for fns 2 & 3 as a statement that it was a terrorist org might be challenged by Cuban exiles, 4 & 5 and 6 are OK, I suppose, although I just don't see the need given they are all clearly supported by cites in the body. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:12, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Apologies, I thought you were unhappy with 6. I've removed 1. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• there needs to be more info in the lead about where some of these things occurred, eg was he in the US between 1961 and 1968 when he conducted the attacks? The Polish freighter? the military trial etc

  Added some details, and reworded.

• more info is needed about who his victims were in the various attacks

  I'm a little hesitant to add more to the lead, given the length of the article. The specific attacks remarked on by the sources are the bazooka attack, the assassination, and the flight 455 bombing, all of which I've included the victims of. The others are both diverse and poorly known (just in the Chilean period, for instance, there's four postal bombings of Cuban embassies, one of a Mexican embassy, one attempted assassination, and one conspiracy of assassination, and moreover some of those are more categorical accusations than the others. Providing detail would bloat the lead too much, I think.

More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Body

• Use his full name at the beginning of Personal life

  Done.

• "where he befriended the future Cuban leader"

  Done.

• "Bosch would returned to the United States in 1988"

  I think I prefer the current wording because it indicates to the reader that there's things of interest happening in the interim...

• link Escambray Mountains and torpedo

  Done.

• "30 incidents of terrorism" in Cuba?

  The source doesn't say, and I haven't been able to find details elsewhere, either. I think it's a fairly good guess that it was in both Cuba and Florida, and possibly elsewhere in the Caribbean, but that's speculative on my part.

• "he fired a shell at the shop"

  Yikes.

• link bazooka

  Done

• "In June 1974 he told" who?

  Presumably someone from the Miami News; the article doesn't make it absolutely explicit that it was the author...

• link Cuban exile

  Done

• "While Tthe Cuban government stated" and "Chile, the US government"

  Flows better indeed, done

• link machine gun

  Done

• suggest Mérida, Mexico

  Gone with just "Mérida"; the other cities there are linked but contain no further identifying information..

• DINA, Orlando García, Sweetwater, vias and Alberto Hernández link to dab pages

  Fixed; had to unlink two of them, as I don't think they quite meet REDLINK

• Andrés Pérez'

  Done (though I prefer "Perez's)

• " Trinidad to Cuba, via Barbados, to Cuba"

  Done

• link time bomb and fencing

  Done

• link military court and hunger strike

  Done

• "authored the bombing of Cubana Flight 455"
• are Arboleya and Dinges really "commentators"? The former is a Cuban historian and former diplomat, and latter is a journalist

• I think the claim is such that you need to attribute these to the people, with explanations of who they were/are: ie "The Cuban diplomat and historian Jesús Arboleya and the American journalist John Dinges claim Bosch was responsible for the bombing." Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:08, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

• There's a few others, too, but okay. Reworded.

• link New York Times

  Done

• "Otto Reich's advocacy"

  Done

• standardise hyphenation of ISBNs

  Done

• some journal articles would benefit from addition of an ISSN

  Well, there's three "cite journals", but two of them aren't really journals. I've added a doi to the third .

• is there a photograph of him that could be added, perhaps to an infobox? An NFUR could be used given he is dead.

There are a couple of obvious NFUR candidates at [1] and the centre one of [2]. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:43, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I have now added an image. I'm a little happier using one where I can track the source down at least to some degree, so I've gone with the one from the NYT obituary. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:46, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• re: File:Orlando Letelier, Washingron DC, 1976 (de Marcelo Montecino).jpg, I don't see how this is PD, as Marcelo Montecino is apparently still alive, and there is no evidence on the file page that he has given up his rights or transferred them to the Museum of Memory and Human Rights.

  I've removed this; I think you're probably correct in saying it's not PD, and if the copyright was transferred, digging it out would be hard.

• are there no photographs available of the results of the terrorist attacks he masterminded?

  This is quite a struggle. There's an image of a memorial of the Cubana flight bombing, which I've added. There's also a memorial of the assassination in DC, but as far as I'm aware the US doesn't allow freedom of panorama, so I don't see how its a PD image. Otherwise, even the sources have no photos, let alone PD images...I could add images of the politicians who campaigned for his release, but someone could raise BLP concerns.

• is Category:Recipients of American presidential pardons supported? I note that World Socialist mentions a pardon.

  None of the mainstream sources say so. I've removed the category, and also the link.

• is Category:Fugitives wanted on terrorism charges supported? I thought it was only for living persons?

  Not supported. Maybe, I wouldn't know...I do not regularly bother with categories. Removed.

• dynamite, Cubana de Aviación and Buenos Aires are duplinked

  Fixed

That's it, placing on hold for the above to be addressed. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:11, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

@Peacemaker67: I've responded to everything except the request for an image of Bosch himself. I'll work on finding a decent one, but that'll have to wait until I login again, but that might be a few days away (it might not; we'll see) so I thought I'd ping you now, and you can get it off your todo list if you'd like. Vanamonde (Talk) 04:27, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

I'll have a read through over the weekend and see what I reckon. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:44, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

This article is well-written, verifiable using reliable sources, covers the subject well, is neutral and stable, contains no plagiarism, and is illustrated by an acceptably licensed image with an appropriate caption. Passing. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 00:24, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Many thanks. I have added the image, just so you know. Vanamonde (Talk) 00:46, 3 August 2020 (UTC)