Talk:Orocobix/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Dear Friends, I have been asked by Cacique Don Pedro Guanikeyu and our Jatibonicu Taino tribal council of Elders, to remove any and all articals that pertain to our tribal history, and genealogy that we had freely furnished to the Wikipedia web site as a educational resource. This removal action has been taken due to disrespect paid to our Cacique (chief) and to our Jatibonicu Taino people as a whole. It is truely sad to note that some woodbe Taino people, have nothing better to do then to go around speak negatively about the real Taino Indian leaders of Puerto Rico for their own personal and political gain of the Taino group they represent. To the person calling themselves the Taino Princes or who ever you are, you have no honor becaue you hide behind a false face with a hiden political agends. On a further note as to ancestral lineage, the genealogical record of Cacique Torres will be published in an official document that will be handed over to the proper State and federal authorities when the times comes to furnish these records for official federal and state recognition of our Jatibonicu Taino tribe. Juan Perez

Dear Friends, Who has disputed this article. Today I noticed that a red flag is up saying "The factual accuracy of this article is disputed" and no name or ID is given for the person disputing my article. What is the reason behind this person disputing my article as it is historically correct and backed by the Jatibonicu Taino tribe in Puerto Rico? Juan Perez

Answer: The reason? Intentional, factual inaccuracies upon which persons may rely to their detriment, and of which records exist clearly substantiating falsehoods associated in particular, with stated claims of tribal lineage, in addition to the reasonable concern of individuals with first-hand knowledge of the inaccuracies in this article. Taino Princess 03:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

There should be separate articles for Orocobix (the historical personage) and the organization calling itself The Jatibonicu Taino Tribe, since no independent proof of a link between both is provided. The whole article seemed to have been written as a way to validate claims to legitimacy by Pedro Guanikeyu Torres and the Jatibonicu Taino Tribe. No independent genealogical proof of Pedro Guanikeyu Torres being a descendant of Orocobix is provided. All that is offered as proof is the web page of Mr. Torres' organization. Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopedia, not a political soapbox and statements such as the ones made in this article need independent sources otherwise anyone could claim anything and post an article to give themselves legitimacy. Furthermore, if this were truly a recognized Native American organization, it would have been recognized under the Bureau of Indian Affairs (Department of the Interior) of the United States of America. It is not. Puerto Rico's current political status has no bearing whatsoever on Native American affairs, which fall under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government of the United States, not only in States but also in Territories and Possessions of the U.S. government. The Jatibonicu Taino Tribe as presented in their own web page more closely resemble a reenactment society than a tribe.

I commend Mr. Torres and his followers for honoring the Taino people whose genes many of us Boricuas (including myself) carry in us and they have a right to live whichever way they like and to claim whatever they wish in their own web page, however this is is meant to be an encyclopedia and the claim made in the article needs independent verification otherwise it is just hearsay, speculation or an outright falsehood. Respectfully, A fellow Boricua

It appears that the person or persons whom has made these comments above, about Chief Torres and his tribe, has no real knowledge of the BIA federal recognition process. The Jatibonicu Tribe had made application for Federal recognition in 2004, but Due to the fact that federal recognition is only granted to American Indian tribal groups residing within the United States 48 continues states and Alaska and due to the fact that Puerto Rico is not a state under the federal system, the tribe does not presently qualify at this time for Federal recognition. I feel that, these coments are being made solely to publicly discredit, Chief Torres and his Jatibonicu Taino tribe. It maybe comming from a person or persons whom maybe a member of one of the many rival Taino groups. As to the genelogy of Chief Torres's family tree, this information is expected and will be fourth coming as part of the proof needed of all persons and tribes applying for recognition as part of the BIA offical federal recognition process. Until Puerto Rico resolves its political status as a US state under the federal system, the tribe remains in a state of waiting. From another fellow Boricua Living in Puerto Rico. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.204.201.48 (talk) 10:39, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

You are advancing false and uncited clams on Wikipedia and dismissing serious user concerns using nothing more than outright lying. The status of Puerto Rico has nothing to do with this heritage group's attempt to try to pretend they are Native Americans. Heritage associations and reenactment societies like the "Jatibonicu" are not Native American tribes in any anthropological, historical or legal sense of the phrase. I don't generally share my opinions here. However, after spending countless hours studying his website, I'm convinced Pedro Torres is a "wannabe Indian" in the most exact sense of the word, as that term is used among Native Americans in the USA. More power to him and those Puerto Ricans and boricua descendants he deceives into hanging out with him and pretending they are "elders," as Native Americans in the USA use the term, as I am sure it helps with down time, boredom and self-esteem issues. I certainly applaud his calling attention to our island's history, but am appalled at his and his cohorts attempts to create a fantasy "tribe," as appalled as many boricuas on WP are. Regardless of his goals, if you make claims on Wikipedia (such as him being a descendant of Orocobix), a resource I love and use regularly, cite your claims to reputable sources. If not, they will be deleted. Wikipeida is NOT a soapbox. --Noopinonada (talk) 01:47, 2 August 2010 (UTC)