Talk:Osama bin Laden

Azzam's relationship with Bin Laden

Azzam's influence on Laden is lede-worthy. These are some academic sources describing a decade-long relationship between Azzam and Laden and Azzam's decisive influence on him:

From the research book Western Jihadism: A Thirty-year history

Bin Laden became a disciple of a Palestinian refugee, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, the man known as “the father of the global jihad.” Steve Coll, who interviewed Bin Laden’s classmates and friends, writes that Bin Laden started to read Azzam’s writings during his student days

(pg. 44)

in 1979 Bin Laden met Azzam in the United States... The wives of Azzam and Bin Laden both reported that their husbands visited each other frequently in the early 1980s, in Jeddah and in Amman, Jordan, where Azzam’s family remained.

(pg 45)

In 1983, Bin Laden joined with Azzam, his mentor from his university days, to establish Maktab Khadama¯t al-Muja¯hidīn al-’Arab (MAK), known in English as the Afghan Services Bureau of the Mujahideen, in Peshawar. The bureau funneled money and volunteers from Arab countries to the fighters in Afghanistan. Working with Azzam, Bin Laden also helped to internationalize the conflict in Afghanistan by setting up charities and recruiting volunteers in Muslim countries, the United States and Europe. On their travels to recruit and raise money for the struggle, the two men spread the word about the obligation incumbent on Muslims to join the armed struggle in defense of Muslim lands against the unbelievers. The struggle against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan came first, but Azzam left no doubt about the need to continue the jihad after victory over the communists. In 1986, Bin Laden moved to Peshawar, taking his family with him. From that point on he would maintain a base there.

(pg. 47)

Bin Laden’s operations in the United States grew out of the Salafi-jihadist network that had been put together in the 1980s to raise money for jihad and to recruit Americans to fight for the mujahideen in Afghanistan. Azzam, known as the “Father of the Global Jihad,” toured American cities in the 1980s, lecturing at mosques and visiting charities. At one point he was accompanied by Bin Laden, his disciple from university days in Jeddah.

(pg. 99)

From the book The Caravan: Abdallah Azzam and the Rise of Global Jihad

the very first meeting between Abdallah Azzam and Usama Bin Ladin happened in Indianapolis, Indiana, of all places, in early 1978

(pg. 98)

Bin Ladin was no stranger to Azzam. As we saw in Chapter 5, the two had met in America in 1978 as well as in Saudi Arabia when Azzam lived there. Moreover, Azzam had been a guest at Bin Ladin’s house in Jeddah several times in 1982 and 1983.18 As Azzam later recalled, “I used to visit him at his house in Jeddah whenever I used to go for Hajj or Umrah ... The first time he invited me to his house was in Ramadan [i.e. July 1982].”

(pg. 209)

It was Abdallah Azzam who, in early 1984, convinced Bin Ladin to go to Peshawar and on to the border areas. Azzam later said, “Brother Usama Bin Ladin came to Islamabad in 1984 bringing aid, and he was nervous about going to Peshawar, as some wise people advised him against it ... I told him: Do not listen to anyone and go to Jaji as Sheikh Sayyaf is there.”27 The visit became a turning point in Bin Ladin’s involvement in the Afghan jihad.

(pg. 211)

Bin Ladin’s justification for his war on America was merely anextension of Azzam’s idea of umma defense.

(pg. 327)

there was a degree of practical cooperation and dialogue between al-Qaida and the Services Bureau in 1988 and 1989. Tamim al-Adnani, the executive director of the Services Bureau, is recorded as having participated in several meetings with known al�Qaida figures in this period... Azzam was so keen to maintain cooperation with Usama Bin Ladin and his men that in late 1988 he proposed having bin Ladin appointed leader of all the Arabs. According to Abdallah Anas, Azzam gathered the original founders of the Services Bureau and told them to go to Usama’s house and “organize an election of sorts where Osama becomes the emir.

(pg. 362)

From the book "Father of Jihad:Abdullah Azzam's Jihad Ideas"]

`Azzam> ’s role during the Soviet–Afghan war period had tremendous contributions to the current state of national and international security, and can be described thus: 1. A jihad advocate who raised jihad awareness among Muslims all over the world and rallied them to participate and support jihad in Afghanistan. 2. A commander for foreign volunteers in Afghanistan, training them for jihad and deploying them to various fronts. 3. An ideologue who constructed jihad ideology to mobilise Muslims and indoctrinate fighters. 4. The founder of Maktab Al-Khidmat> which, whether intended or not, later transformed into Al-Qaeda. 5. A mentor to Bin Laden who went on to become the leader of Al-Qaeda, the leading jihadist organisation today.

Osama bin Ladens killing faked?

There is a few contradictions with the story of the revenge killing of Osama bin Laden. Major point being the legal system in the United States which has practice of giving out life sentences of 100+ years. Every foreign person shakes their head at this because very few people have a life over 120 years. Similarily fly/lure fishing is a common practice in the fishing sport of America. The practice of throwing or releasing fish back into the pond or water is common when the fish is not of certain size/weight. So in conclusion, people are asking why the US Navy aircraft carrier that took DNA samples from the carcass of Osama bin Laden threw him back into the Indian Ocean, instead of taking his remains to the US, for 100+ years of incarceration past death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.180.127.141 (talk) 17:51, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Why does "Osama" redirect to this page?

It's a fairly common given name. 2604:3D09:1785:9000:D178:A395:9F80:1C88 (talk) 11:28, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Good point. This encyclopedia has dozens of articles about various "Osamas", and searches for it should clearly go to the disambiguation page at Osama (disambiguation)... I have made that change. Marcus Markup (talk) 11:42, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Your edit resulted in a WP:MALPLACED disambiguation page. If you think there is no primary topic for Osama, please propose moving Osama (disambiguation) to the base name. older ≠ wiser 12:59, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I don't "think there is no primary topic for Osama" per se. I, along with the IP, think re-directing "Osama" here is unencylopedic. Marcus Markup (talk) 18:09, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Why is that unencyclopedic? And, if you don't think there is a primary topic, then the disambiguation page should be at the base name. Do not simply change the redirect target. older ≠ wiser 18:56, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

It's unencyclopedic because readers wanting to know about one of the dozens of other uses of "Osama", and who enter that term explicitly in the search box, should not have to be presented with the article of a terrorist to get there first. That such a search should go to the disambiguation page seems obvious to me.Marcus Markup (talk) 19:04, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

That's an opinion; but as with many other such names where one person is very strongly associated with the name, Wikipedia has for a very long time agreed that the name can redirect to such persons who are singularly extremely well-known by the name. older ≠ wiser 19:48, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Forcing every user who wants to know about the historic aspects of a subject, to first read the article about whatever it is which is the most popular search is of course, the operative modus here, but I will continue to defend old-school encyclopedic style, which would in no way require someone interested in the history of "Osama" to first be presented with the article of a terrorist, but that is, as you point out, simply my opinion, and I've made my case and I'm done re-iterating it. Marcus Markup (talk) 20:15, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

This isn't like "Hitler". Osama is a very common name. In the US, everyone thinks of Bin Laden, but in countries where it's a common given name, that's not the case. Osama (disambiguation) should be moved to Osama. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 02:07, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Support moving the dab-page, per Zanahary. Draken Bowser (talk) 14:24, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Anyone can start a requested move discussion at the relevant talk page Talk:Osama (disambiguation). Note that because of the history, this would not qualify as an uncontroversial technical move. older ≠ wiser 14:35, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

I have started it here. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 15:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Osama (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 15:33, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2024

Change "War in Terror" in the Reception and legacy section, to "War on Terror" Bflemingdc (talk) 17:49, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

 Done Squeakachu (talk) 17:59, 27 October 2024 (UTC)