Talk:Oswald Eve

Section headings

Bill Filis,

I am curious why we have to have a contest on using the term "The first powder mill" as opposed to my preference: "The First Powder Mill" ? The reason on why I use all capitals is, for one, it looks better and two, it is a subject or could be a subject unto itself.

As a researcher and an authoritarian on the subject of both Oswell Eve and his Powder-Mill, I use great restraint not to interject any research material or violate the rules, but as such I have also read every footnote from every author, so far cited. I am and have been familiar with the materials and know which authors have used inaccurate, faulty and biased materials on the subject of Oswell Eve.

In citing such authors, this article as well as many other articles do not have, and never will have, a neutral point of view. (It is sort of a built in liability of being a believer in everything you read as opposed to being a researcher.)

Be that as it may, anyone citing bad, poor, unproven faulty materials that were published do not violate the Wiki-rules, so those materials and citations will remain.

That being said, I am removing the following for what does violate the rules:

Eve may have been born in Bermondsey, Surrey, England. He moved to South Carolina as a child. He was based in Philadelphia from at least 1743 to 1783.

Eve fled to Nassau, where he died in his son Joseph's house in 1793.

The reason for the removal is that these lines were taken from the private website of David Eve of the UK, and not cited as such & with his permission, & etc. See: http://www.evetree.co.uk/oswell1.html

If you would like to speak with me directly, or want some help with your other Wiki projects, please leave me a message. Perhaps we could exchange e-mails addys.Bigjoe5216 (talk) 01:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I also removed all the original research materials that were used in the citations. (those were the ones that I mistakenly had place into Benjamin Rush, but have since removed.Bigjoe5216 (talk) 02:00, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

On this page, it says "The first letter of the first word, letters in acronyms, and the first letter of each word of a proper noun are capitalized; all other letters are in lower case (Funding of UNESCO projects, not Funding of UNESCO Projects)." This is for Article titles, but below that under Section headings, it says the same rules apply to them.--BillFlis (talk) 10:28, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

And OK, I found some back-up for the site of Eve's death; it was in one of your own references (Sarah Eve's journal). So I put that fact back in, expanded a bit with additional info from the source.--BillFlis (talk) 22:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I see you changed it, but I think you still need to remove a few capital letters, in order to be in keeping with the Guidelines. I know you've said it offends your aesthetic sense, and you admit to being an authoritarian, but I don't want to continue what you see as some kind of contest.--BillFlis (talk) 23:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

First mill?

I recall reading something about Eve's mill being the only one in the colonies when he built it. But this page (near the bottom) says that when Revere returned to Mass., an old abandoned powder mill in Canton was rebuilt and re-opened, and that was where Revere applied his newly learned knowledge of Eve's methods. This means that Eve's mill was not the first in the colonies. It's also intriguing that that page paints Eve as something of a war-profiteer, at first refusing to let Revere visit so that he could preserve his monopoly, and then limiting the visit to only a walk-through, with no real transfer of information. However, that page offers no documentation of this.--BillFlis (talk) 22:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

In response to "First" mill

In 1891 Elbridge Henry Goss wrote and had published The Life of Colonel Paul Revere.

It was so popular that in 1905 another writer expanded on the previous work and also capitalized by successfully writing and publishing: The True Story of Paul Revere: His Midnight Ride, His Arrest and Court Martial by Charles Ferris Gettemy.

Gettemy as well as Goss did well at canonizing Paul Revere at the expense of and to the detriment of the good name of Oswell Eve.

The fact is in Wikipedia, we are constrained to citing and repeating what has been printed and published, not necessarily what is true.

In their books on Paul Revere, Gettemy and Goss do not have any proof to back up their claim that Eve refused or failed in anything, nor do they cite where they had obtained the information where Oswell Eve refused anything.

In fact, if one reads the letter that Revere presents to Mr. Eve, the instructions were followed explicitly; he showed Revere what he needed to see in order to operate a powder-mill.

The very fact that Eve was attained of Treason does not make him guilty of anything. It just made him an easy target for character assassination.

The truth about Eve will come out when someone publishes the truth and then you can cite it.

If all the wittiness have died and the authors of history have told a lie, then through repetition lies become the truth .

Napoleon never said: "History is a set of lies...," but he should have, because:

History is a set of lies in which everyone agrees, as it makes us comfortable in not knowing what really happened. We rather live with the lies.

Having said all this, as a bonus, I will try slowly add a section on Powder-Mills in America as to make a distinction of their significance in their own time and place.

P.S.

Sarah Eve's journal is a great read, but is also full of errors. It contains as many facts as it does errors, but that's just me talking.

Also I was never very good at the rules on Capitalization of letters. In fact I am not good at following rules at all, so since you know the rules better than me, then God Bless you. Go change the letters.Bigjoe5216 (talk) 23:49, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I agree with you. That page was just too pat--my suspicions instantly arose as to its factualness. As I said, no backup was offered. It was like an homage to Revere: even if he didn't have any "Midnight Ride", he was still great, a genius even. So I was not about to include any of its "facts" here. It does make a nice story, though, much like George Washington's cherry tree! On the other hand, the existence of an earlier powder mill in the colonies, as it claims, doesn't look like propaganda. But if you can't refute that, I don't think you can claim that Eve's mill was the first. One way or another, backup is needed.--BillFlis (talk) 00:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Eve's Mill was not the first powder-mill in America.

There were many (a few) others that claimed to be first. Either way, the other mills were either long gone, or in the state of disrepair and the "art" of manufacture was lost and forgotten around the start of the Revolution.

The American Revolutionaries had a few years to anticipate the need for powder as the Boston Massacre was in 1770.

There is a lot more to Oswell Eve that has been missed or lost because of American vanity, pride and hatred (predjudice) toward those on the "losing side" of history.Bigjoe5216 (talk) 04:03, 7 May 2008 (UTC)