Talk:Oxford/Archive 1

Archive 1

Links

In the sentence:

 See also University of Oxford and Magdalen College, Oxford.

I am going to replace the link to Magdalen College with a comment that links to all colleges are to be found on the University of Oxford page, as there is no reason in the particular context to single out one college.

However, where the photo captions refer to particular colleges (including Magdalen) these can be turned into active links. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.246.132.26 (talk) 11:22, 4 June 2003 (UTC)

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==Churches ==

I moved this here from the article because I don't think it adds anything particularly interesting, but might be worth putting back in a different form.

Churches in central Oxford

• Blackfriars (Roman Catholic) Dominican Priory, 64 St Giles
• Christ Church Cathedral (Anglican), St Aldates
• German Lutheran at St Mary the Virgin, High Street
• New Road Baptist Church, Bonn Square
• Orthodox Church of the Holy Trinity and the Annuciation, 1 Canterbury Road (off Banbury Road)
• Religious Society of Friends (Quaker)
• Roman Catholic chaplaincy, Rose Place, St Aldate's
• St Aldate's (Anglican)
• St Aloysius (Roman Catholic), Woodstock Road
• St Columba's United Reformed Church, Alfred Street
• St Cross (Anglican)
• St Ebbe's (Anglican), Pennyfarthing Place, off St Ebbe's
• St Giles' (Anglican), St Giles'
• St Mary Magdalen (Anglican) Magdalen Street
• St Mary the Virgin University Church * St Michael-at-the-Northgate (Anglican)
• The Salvation Army, Oxford Citadel, Albion Place
• Wesley Memorial Methodist Church, New Inn Hall Street

- Lady Lysine Ikinsile 13:46, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)

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Must agree, though it seems to have found its way back. Perhaps someone clever can boxify it or make it interesting. Alf 2 July 2005 20:30 (UTC)

Myths

There are two rumours I have heard since moving to Oxford, which I assumed to be myths:

• North Parade is more to the south than South Parade (both in North Oxford and Summertown) because of the parading of troops during the Civil War.

Jan Morris's Oxford quotes this story, but gives no source. Thruston 16:16, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've heard this also, I know the guy to ask, I'll post the sources when I get them. Alf 21:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC) Hansard backs this up - [1] 22 Jan 2003 : Column 821 second paragraph. North Parade and South Parade, standing about 300 yards apart, mark the lines where the armies of the executive (the King) and Parliament regularly faced each other while the court was in Oxford during the Civil War. So North Parade for the Northern Army (King) and South Parade for the Southern (Rebellion) Army.Alf 02:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That link doesn't work for me. Mark¹ 02:51, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

link fixed.Alf 09:42, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• The St Giles' Fair has to be done every year so St John's College can claim their ownership of the road St Giles'.

Are these true? – Kaihsu 11:32, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)

Not true about St Giles Fair, but True (as far as anyone can tell) about Notrh and sounth parrade. The names dont come from "the Northen and Sothen Armys", but the northan most "parrade" of the kings army, and the sothen most of the Palimanterian.

Another one is that

One can walk from St John's College, Oxford to St John's College, Cambridge without leaving land which are owned by either one of the colleges.

– Kaihsu 15:59, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)

This last one is said about other colleges too, so I'd strongly suspect MYTH Thruston 16:16, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

There is a book called Encyclopedia of Oxford or some such in the (County) central library next to Westgate shopping centre. It might clear up some of these myths. But I have not investigated deeply. – Kaihsu 17:46, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

The story about St John's land ownership was, I believe, literally true at the time of Samuel Johnson - I will not pretend to have read it from his work, but it is cited passim. It is almost certainly no longer the case! ndaisley 11:39, 30 Nov 2005

Twinning

I'm checking with Oxford City Council as to the status of the Perm twinning and requesting info on twinning proposals, the City Council webiste still lists Perm.Alf 21:51, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Have response - "Perm is very much a twinning- probably one of the strongest currently" (May Wylie, Oxford City Council contact for twinning issues) so have edited to remove weak twinning slant.Alf 10:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yes, activities with Perm appeared in the local press. Sorry for earlier misunderstanding. – Kaihsu 17:44, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Geography

'wards, neighbourhoods and suburbs' is confusing, Oxford City Council has 24 wards so some are missing, neighbourhoods will depend both on local viewpoint and local maps which vary with year and publisher eg. cold harbour (a tiny area at the end of the Abingdon Rd), how far from Carfax can a suburb be - would Berinsfield count?. I'd like to remove list, ensure former live link listing in bulk and move the shark to Images of Oxford (which would be better on it's own page as it seems to clutter the article). Alf 22:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What are the geographical coordinates? 18 Nov 2006(DBU)

Town Hall

Needs re-writing, I will if no objections: "Oxford's Town Hall was built by Henry T. Hare, the foundation stone was laid on 6 July 1893 and opened by the future King Edward VII on 12 May 1897" is more definitive than "Oxford's Town Hall was built during the reign of Queen Victoria". I would also like to have "Though Oxford has city status and is a Lord Mayoralty, the seat of the city council is still called by its traditional name of "Town Hall" to read "The site has been the seat of local government since the Guild Hall of 1292 and though Oxford is a city and a Lord Mayoralty, the seat of the city council is still called by its traditional name of "Town Hall". Alf 23:24, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

University Towns

Is it appropriate to include university towns in the United States? I guess im just curious as to what that distinction exactly means in the last paragraph in the opening statements? Any clarification would be nice. Thankszors!--Gephart 21:50, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I think the point is that these are towns which are dominated by their university, and that's the reason they're twinned with Oxford. I don't know if that applies anywhere in America (indeed I don't know of Oxford is twinned with anywhere in America [2]). Mark¹ 00:38, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

No its not, and I dont think it is fair to say Oxford is dominated by Its universitys. They do have alot of influencs, but so do other industrys.

Frideswide

Does anyone have a reasonable source for Christ Church being the site of the Priory Chapel as I can't find an agreement of location from the net? I changed Frideswide because I can't see that it's absolutely factual. I'll resist changing this here until further debate there, I'm quite happy to undo changes if better sourced. Although she's mentioned a few times, we've not said here that she is patron saint of the university; is she not patron saint of city also? Alf 2 July 2005 20:28 (UTC)

The excellent 'Encyclopaedia of Oxford' (Christopher and Edward Hibbert, my copy published 1988 by Papermac) describes her as 'patron saint of the City and the University, about whom little can be said for certain'!

OK thanks for that Ndaisley, will add that in. Alf ^melmac 13:20, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

12th/13th century

(unsigned comment moved from top of talk page)

Sorry to mess this page up, but shouldn't 1201-1300 be referred to as the 13th century?

"The University of Oxford is first mentioned in 12th century records. Oxford's earliest colleges were University College (1249), Balliol (1263) and Merton (1264)."

Will change this to "13th century records." - Anon

I guess the text could be clearer about this. But see http://www.ox.ac.uk/aboutoxford/history.shtml. The fact that the earliest colleges were started in the 13th century, does not mean that Oxford University was not mentioned in records before this. --JoanneB 10:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I see. I'll edit it a bit to make it less ambiguous, hopefully.

- Same anon

Orthodox Church of the Holy Trinity and the Annuciation

This was linked to "Orthodox Church", which is a disambiguation page. I have changed the link to be the whole name of the church, although this creates a redlink. If someone would like it to be linked to a denomination instead of the church's name, please link to an article page about the correct denomination. I can't tell if this is an Eastern Orthodox Church, for instance, or a more specific Orthodox denomination. Thanks! --Disambiguation link repair - You can help! --Iggle 06:53, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Ben's Cookies

To me, the recently added, and gramatically suspect, reference to this business looks less than impartial and rather like advertising. I don't necessarily want to enrage anyone by removing the reference myself, but I did wonder if anyone else had a view on this. JoeKennedy1979 19:30, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

History wording improvement

I am new to editing wikipedia, so please excuse my stepping on any toes. In simply browsing I ran across a bit that I found difficult to follow.

Under History the second paragraph could benefit from a major rewording. I cannot even begin to do it myself (if I had the nerve, being new to this and quite ignorant of the subject) mainly because I do not understand what most of the third sentence is trying to say ("It was strongly fortified ... AND ... AND ... AND ...".)

The following sentence also needs to be broken up or clarified somehow. ("West of the town ... : in the field ...; the great church...; and many fine churches...") Too many clauses, in my view.

I leave it to someone more experienced to determine if this is neccesary, or to point out if I am simply having a lapse of understanding in my reading.

Derekbd 11:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Possible Merging/Deletion of Category:Streets in Oxford

Hello. Just dropping by to make you aware of a move by a user who has categorized himself as a 'Mergist Wikipedian' to delete 'Category:Streets in Oxford', so that it may be ultimately merged into a single 'Streets and Squares' Category. If you wish to express an opinion, the place to do it is here. Not sure where else to bring this to the attention of people who may be interested in Oxford, so I'd put a word in here.--Keefer4 | Talk 02:03, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

External links

I believe that Oxford travel guide from Wikivoyage should be a link on this page. At least then Wikipedia can encourage people that wish to add tourism to do so at Wikitravel. Fastestdogever 19:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to give this a few more days, and if there are no objections I'll go ahead and add it. - Fastestdogever 03:55, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Fletcher's Guide to Oxford is online. (130-page book by a well-known Oxford don, pix, etc.) 24.148.19.254 09:39, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Photographs

I've just put four photographs of the city taken from Boars Hill up on Commons - normal, short panorama, wide panorama, skyline. Any use for the article? Shimgray | talk | 23:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Images

There are far too many images cluttering up this page, couldent some of them be put on a "See more Images" section like is done at the Coventry Cathedral article, rather than having them cluttering up the article space. G-Man 23:24, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have (what I believe to be) a better image of the Oxford Museum of Natural History, and one of Christchurch college. Is it worth replacing the current pictures or inserting a gallery. Please see here to view the pictures to consider if they are worth uploading. --Jdedmond 21:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Umm, sorry to be picky, but there is no such thing as Christchurch college, at least not in Oxford. There's a college called "Christ Church". Not "Christchurch college", not "Christ Church college", not "Christ Church College", any more than LMH is "Lady Margaret Hall College", just "Christ Church". Also, as there's rather a lot of Christ Church it might help to say "Christ Church from the War Memorial gardens" (or whatever). Philip Trueman (talk) 13:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

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Origin of the name?

I was hoping this article may shed some light on the origin of the name 'Oxford'. Alas, all it mentions is that its descended from 'Oxenaforda'. Where did this original name come from, for example was there once a River Ox? Grunners (talk) 13:51, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Found the answer - "Ford of the Ox" - have added in to article and referenced source. Grunners (talk) 19:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Layout

Hello folks,

I've just made some changes to the article to bring it more inline with the WP:UKCITIES project guideline. Much, much more work is needed on this article however, which at present, is in a poor condition. --Jza84 |  Talk  20:51, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Infobox

I've changed the infobox to a settlement. I hope all the information in the box is correct, if not please feel free to add to it.--TwentiethApril1986 (talk) 12:28, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks great! I'd personally put Image:Oxsky.jpg in the infobox as the lead image, but that's based purely on personal tastes and sensibilities. Other than that, that was a long overdue and well needed change! Thanks! --Jza84 |  Talk  12:51, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I did think about that and you're right, it does look better. Should it be used outside of the infobox too?--TwentiethApril1986 (talk) 12:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think there's any rule against it, but I'd certainly try to seek an alternative image. That way we're adding more value to article. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  13:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I've just kept the skyline photo in the infobox. I don't think it needed to be in the history section. It can always be added later.--TwentiethApril1986 (talk) 13:06, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Music

Should a section on music from Oxford be made? We have bands like Supergrass, Radiohead and the Foals from the city and they are all pretty big so I think this should be covered.

Should this be listed in the main article or should it have its own? Let me know. --TwentiethApril1986 (talk) 15:25, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The articles on Manchester, Sheffield and Kingston upon Hull each seem to tackle this subject with some objectivity. I think those might be good examples to emulate. :) --Jza84 |  Talk  15:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Wards, neighbourhoods, and suburbs

Why is Abingdon listed in this section? It is a separate town and nothing to do with the City of Oxford. You could just as easily include Witney or Bicester in the list. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 14:59, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikimania

Editors may be interested in the general call for Wikimedians who would be interested in getting involved with an extremely active venture to bring Wikimania to Oxford. All the information about the Oxford bid can be found at meta wiki here. Warofdreams talk 11:30, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

History of Oxford

I came across this stub page - History of Oxford. Obviously the history of the town is already covered in much greater detail on Oxford, so does anyone have any thoughts on what is best to do with the other, redundant page? Delete, leave for future expansion, link from history section, merge (not sure there is much worth merging in)? I was considerng sending it to AFD but honestly am not sure as there is clearly a wealth of history regarding Oxford that could merit a seperate article at some point. Thoughts? Sassf (talk) 17:40, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Magdalen Bridge on May Morning

Under the history section it states that it is a tradition for students to jump off the bridge into the Cherwell. Well, I suppose it has become a kind of tradition, despite the best efforts of the Council and Police to stop them and disrupting the pleasure of the rest of us in the process, but I believe it's only something that has begun in the last 30 years or so. I therefore think this reference is misleading. And anyway, the whole reference is in brackets in a paragraph dealing with an otherwise very different topic (the relationship between Cowley and the University). I suggest the copy within brackets should be deleted. 82.10.105.53 (talk) 12:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Tourist guide

My apologies for the boring lists under "Tourist Attractions". My intent was/is to work them up into small paragraphs on in each section, but I'd welcome help.

I also thought that it would be good to link them up into a series of "Walks around the City". This might be an interesting way for visitors to find / explore the many scattered items about things in Oxford. Comments?

Toby Thurston 16:20, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's not our job; we're an encyclopedia, not a tourist guide. Paragraphs would be good, though. Mark¹ 02:03, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

-

The 'vue cinema..' bit in the attractions section is quite clearly just an advert. I suggest it should be moved down the list, if not removed entirely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.132.59 (talk) 21:34, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Templar's Square

The section listing "Templar's Square" - an unremarkable, somewhat dated, shopping mall on the outskirts of the town - as an attraction looks suspiciously like advertising. I think it should be deleted - it is certainly not listed as a tourist attraction in any major tourist guide, nor are tourists in the habit of frequenting it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.52.1 (talk) 15:10, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

41 namesakes

Someone might like to add to the text Oxford's 41 namesakes on three continents. "London, which has spread to 46 settlements on six continents, is second on the list, followed by Oxford (41 on three continents) and Manchester (36 on two continents). Bristol is fifth, equal to Wellington, with 35." (Jack Malvern. Richmond, in Surrey, is the most widely copied British place name worldwide, timesonline 2008-12-29. The original byline for the article in The Times of the same day was "The 55 corners of foreign fields that will be for ever ... Richmond" (page 9). Cites The Times Universal Atlas of the World.) PBS (talk) 09:49, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Univ Image

I removed the part of the image caption saying Univ was the oldest college. This is disputed between Univ, Merton and Balliol and depends upon the definition of oldest college. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.72.154.9 (talk) 01:13, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Transport

May I suggest that a section is created and included to briefly describe access by public transport (major roads, motorways, rail, and air, and how these may have affected Oxford's professional demography in recent years? See: Malvern, Worcestershire for an example (although this is currently under discussion). Kudpung (talk) 02:00, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Oxford United players

I added Dean Saunders to the list, certainly one of the highest profile players to turn out for The U's.Dantilley (talk) 01:43, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but I have removed him again - along with all the other "Notable former players" and also the "Notable former managers". That sort of information does not really belong in an article on Oxford, the city; the proper place is in Oxford United F.C., List of Oxford United F.C. players and List of Oxford United F.C. managers. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Motto

The caption to the achievement [coat-of-arms] states '"Fortis est veritas" "Truth is strong strength"'; however the ribbon on the achievement itself reads "FORTIS AST VERITAS". One of them must be wrong, surely; unfortunately it seems to be the image, which I can't easily amend. See Jenkins, Stephanie (14 February 2008). "Coat of arms of the City of Oxford". Oxford History. Retrieved 20 July 2009. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC) amended Redrose64 (talk) 12:14, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

There is a mistake in translation of the motto... If the motto is really FORTIS EST VERITAS, it means THE TRUTH IS STRONG, not "truth is strength"; this is due to the fact that "FORTIS" is an adjective, which means "STRONG" and not a noun, which would mean "strength".

The construction of the phrase is tipically latin, and literally it would sound a bit Jedi (Yoda)-like: "STRONG IS THE TRUTH".

I suggest correcting the "motto" section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.13.172.65 (talk) 11:03, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

This has been debated before, most recently with two edits in June this year (edit 1, edit 2). What you need to do is to find a reputable history of Oxford which gives an authoritative translation, then you may amend the article but most importantly, you must also reference it. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:09, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Famous Oxford residents

A section on "Famous Oxford residents" has recently been started, but many of those listed are resident in various parts of Oxfordshire, rather than Oxford city itself. If anyone can help to cross-check this that would be a help. May also be worth discussing whether this section is "encyclopedic" enough. mervyn 13:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes mervyn I will admit to emitting quiet growling noises when I saw this appear. Like the 'notables' of the university itself, if kept will need close watching. When the start of term is over I might have some time to go digging around for some verification. --Alf ^melmac 14:42, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we could export it to a list, along with the rest of our dirty laundry? Mark¹ 15:04, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Have removed dubious section - unverified, mostly non-Oxford City and many already mentioned -- have put in a shorter section "Other notable Oxfordians". mervyn 09:58, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I like that edit Mervyn, my only comment is using "Oxfordians" as opposed to "Oxonians". General opinions on that? --Alf ^melmac 10:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I have no problem with "Oxonians". mervyn 11:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The term "Oxonians" usually refers to alumni of the university rather than residents (or former residents) of the city. And it certainly seems incorrect to use it for residents of Oxfordshire as well as Oxford itself. --RichardVeryard 12:56, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

It started out as Oxfordians, but Oxonians sounded better, and I don't think the term is exclusively for University use, but may be wrong. Certainly, it is not being used re residents of Oxfordshire -- it was intended as a section for people (not elsewhere listed) who are City of Oxford born-and-bred, not just residents, and should be a strictly focussed section. --mervyn 13:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be Oxfordians. I like it better, but those living in Oxfordshire can say Oxonians. From a proud Oxfordian :)--Floandthemash (talk) 20:24, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Schools

It's occurred to me that all of the schools listed under 'Schools' are actually public (ie. not state funded) schools - none of them are state schools. Is there a particular reason for this being the state of affairs? If there isn't, may I add the missing state schools (at least, the largest ones). Lukasa 18:42, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree, state schools should be included. I have added Cherwell School to the list 155.198.63.112 14:40, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Why does this section say that Oxford has so many highly academic schools, yet Oxford has the worst examination results? I think this doesn't make sense, and the 'highly academic' phrase should be removed... Mike 12:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

@Mike Well Magdalen and OHS are pretty good schools and why didn't they have Cherwell on it? Stupid huh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Floandthemash (talk • contribs) 20:27, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Controversy

Some world map makers are arguing over the new Oxford World Atlas map.... It is claimed that they were biased when making this new map. Places such as islands and seas were renamed to the favor of a "stronger nation" in that region.... Such examples follow by the Liancourt Rocks...(Tokdo in Korean Takeishima in Japanese) In their world atlas. Oxford only mentions Takeishima under Tokdo and failed to mention that Tokdo belongs to Korea... Not Japan... The big controversty still lies where the marginal sea that lies between Korea and Japan is called "Sea of Japan".... Oxford did not mention East Sea which is a more neutral term used.... Please add more information below for this argument...

Urrm. Not shaw what this has to do with Oxford... That is Oxford University Press. Noting to do with the city of Oxford, any more that you can comment on the work of the London school of economics, and use it to critisies London as a whole.

To correct the Geographical error that places Oxford in the South East of England. This is incorrect as Oxford lies above the area gennerally considered to be the South East of England (London and the home counties, infact to my mind anything below Watford is the South East). I would put Oxford as more South Midlands or central England.English n proud (talk) 11:51, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

File:Oxford COA.gif Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Climate Change

The sentence about climate change seems a little useless to me. Where does this "field of thought" come from? Citation is needed here, obviously. Even with citation, does this fact contribute anything of significant value to the article? To me, it just doesn't flow well. I would rather not take it out for fear of stepping on someone's in-progress project, or seeming impulsive. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.157.154.163 (talk) 01:18, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Dark side of Oxford

Is it just me, or should something be written about the dark side of Oxford, like the monstrosity that is the 12 or so storey council flat in Wood Farm? I don't see any gowns cycling around Rose Hill or Blackbird Leys. Why not? I know this may sound politically incorrect, but take away the University and you ain't left with much of Oxford, except the parts you never see in the tourist brochures. Degrassifan 22:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not just you. However this is completely normal; it's fiendishly difficult to get *any* kind of account of Oxford outside the city and college walls. This is rather surprising, because the townies have a history of stroppiness dating back centuries.

There is a rather good photo-history of East Oxford: I have to hand Cowley and East Oxford, Past and Present by Graham and Waters (ISBN 0-7509-2761-5). But I've failed to find a decent account of the circumstances in which the neighbourhood in which I live was developed as an urban community in victorian times. There's probably something relevant in the central library; but I'm no local historian, and I don't care to do the research myself. MrDemeanour 12:37, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you should also include the violence and antisocal behavour of Oxford University Students...

Perhaps we should include the violent and antisocial behavior of those people in Oxford who are not students of the University. Or perhaps not. Shinigami27 (talk) 01:08, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, If you take away the Universitys (!!!) you are left with a mid sized City with a thriving manufacturing and construction industry, and a very desirable place to live for people working in London. It is also a very vibrant cultural city, but then I take it from your comment "This is rather surprising, because the townies have a history of stroppiness dating back centuries." that you are an Oxford Uni student (or Ex student).

I am not a past or present member of Oxford Uni. I was born in Oxford, and I live there now, having lived in other places in between. And Oxford townies have a documented history of stroppiness: St. Scholastica riot is an early example. I don't mean "stroppy" in any particularly critical sense - perhaps "independence of thought" would be an appropriate euphemism.

MrDemeanour (talk) 11:52, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

What about the rape of young children gone unopposed in Oxford for ten years? (shiver). http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/yourtown/oxford/9611226.OPERATION_BULLFINCH__Six_charged__seven_bailed_over_child_sex_abuse_allegations/ 82.31.236.245 (talk) 22:06, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

It looks like there has been silent collusion between the police, the social services and the criminals concerned, both the police and the social services have been aware of this horror for over a decade. Twobells (talk) 16:13, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Grooming children for rape

Oxford has been targeted in the last ten years by criminals grooming young children for rape, I believe it is legitimate and requires a mention. This off-sets the 'dreaming spires' connotation and is worthy of inclusion. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-17496490 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/22/oxford-arrests-child-exploitation

Oppose inclusion - recentist and trivial in the context of the overall history.Rangoon11 (talk) 18:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

For inclusion - the fact that the practice has gone on in Oxford unopposed for more than ten years makes it remarkable. wikipedia doesn't dismiss relevant facts and events based on timeline, all timelines have equal validity. 82.31.236.245 (talk) 22:00, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

For me, it seems non-notable in the overall history of the city. It would probably be notable in an article that was specifically on the histroy of Oxford over the past 10 years, or on 'Crime in Oxford'. Others may disagree however, this is a subjective point. Rangoon11 (talk) 23:59, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

They've been arrested, charged and then remanded in custody, but not (yet) convicted. Here in England, people are innocent until proven guilty - even those suspected of the most serious and despicable crimes. (Apart from tax evasion that is - where strange as it may seem, it's for you to prove that you have paid your taxes, not for the Revenue to prove that you've not)

Also: is it a problem with Oxford, or with people who happened to live in Oxford? --Redrose64 (talk) 00:39, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I believe it is highly notable that child rape has gone on in Oxford unchallenged possibly with the silent collusion of social services and the police for ten years. Twobells (talk) 16:09, 25 March 2012 (UTC).

Not notable in the context of this particular article: a rather superficial search of the same news source shows, in this month alone, similar offences in Kent, Liverpool, Bristol and Bedfordshire. And, why have users' original comments been deleted or altered to bolster the OP's case? Altering the comments of others on talk pages is vandalism. --Old Moonraker (talk) 17:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I have restored my comments, verbatim, because there was no response either here or at User talk:Twobells#Talk:Oxford, and I consider that they were removed contrary to WP:TPO. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:38, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

The crime is almost certainly notable enough for a mention on Wikipedia should there be convictions or proven victims but probably not ideal here yet. A more general article on street grooming in the UK would be a better venue, where all such incidents that have to come light recently across the country could be covered. A sentence in this article could then link to the appropriate section of that page. If you are interested in covering this topic then it would be preferable to document significant very similar cases elsewhere where they have already been convictions rather than spending too much time on something that is still subject to major legal proceedings.--Shakehandsman (talk) 00:42, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Good idea. Such an article doesn't appear to exist at present but the topic is undoubtedly notable, and capable of extensive treatment. Rangoon11 (talk) 11:38, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I have apologized for the accidental deletion of Redrose64 edit. Good idea about a specific article! I have never created a new article on my own; would some kind soul steer me towards the required tut please?Twobells (talk) 17:11, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

You may want to work on it in your sandbox first. Here's some info on creating your first article WP:YFA.--Shakehandsman (talk) 17:24, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Dubious history

I've tagged the statement that the castle "has never been used for military purposes" as dubious; apart from being built to "confirm Norman authority over the area", which sounds like a military purpose to me, the place was besieged in 1142 during the Anarchy. I'm thinking that bit needs re-writing; any thoughts? Moonraker12 (talk) 13:47, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Dorothy Hodgkin blue plaque

I wonder if anyone could help me to precisely locate the blue plaque commemorating Dorothy Hodgkin, at the University of Oxford 's Department of Chemistry, on South Parks Road, as mentioned on List of blue plaques erected by the Royal Society of Chemistry ideally by giving its coordinates? A picture would be appreciated, too, please. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:25, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

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Politics

Shouldn't there be a section about how Oxford is governed, what the party strength of each party is etc.? Merijn2 (talk) 00:09, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

school merge

I have suggested that the Larkrise Primary School article be merged to here as it is non-notable. Any comments welcome CalzGuy (talk) 04:30, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Karate

The section on Karate in Oxford is clearly advertising and should be cleaned up heavily don't people think? 129.67.21.254 (talk) 09:48, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

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Diverse economy

It is said in the lede, and again in the 'Economy' section, that Oxford has a diverse economy. In the 'Economy' section, that claim was cited to an Oxford City Council page that no longer exists (I removed the citation, leaving the claim uncited). I have not removed the claim, but I dispute it.

Anyhow, I do not consider the Oxford City Council website to be a reliable source for claims about the health of the Oxford economy. In fact the Oxford economy is utterly dominated by the two universities (whose students represent about a third of the term-time population), and tourism (the tourists come mainly to stand in the middle of the road and take selfies in front of Oxford University architecture).

The motor industry now employs 4,600 staff in Oxford, all at BMW's mini plant. [3] The population of Oxford (excluding students) is about 140,000, of whom about 70,000 comprise the workforce. BMW is a major employer, but tiny compared to the university and tourism sectors; I suspect we have more barristas than car workers. BTW, it is inaccurate to refer to the activities of the present motor industry in Oxford as 'manufacturing'; the mini plant is an assembly plant only. Oxford Brookes University runs courses in motorsports engineering that attract students from far and wide, and there are motor-racing builders operating near Oxford - Silverstone is just up the road; but that is the economy of Oxfordshire, not of Oxford.

All of the 'Science and Technology' industrial activities listed in the article appear to be either Oxford University activities, or spin-offs created through Isis Innovation or other university-sponsored businesses.

The brewing industry topic under the 'Economy' section is entirely historical; there is no brewing industry in present-day Oxford.

As far as publishing is concerned, Elsevier's office is outside Oxford. Wiley-Blackwell is an american company based in Noo Joysey; As far as I am aware, their Oxford activities are restricted to bookselling. And as noted, Oxford University Press is an operation of Oxford University, and does not contribute significantly to the city's economic 'diversity'.

It is true that there are 'a good number' (guess: max a dozen or so) of computer software companies operating around Oxford. But none of these employ more than 30 staff; there are no major employers here in the software industry. I would be very surprised to learn that more than a few hundred people work in the software industry in Oxford.

Oxford's economy is unbalanced and precarious, and has been for at least 40 years (I can cite that to a book published in 1945, by an Oxford planner). MrDemeanour (talk) 12:57, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Hello computerland

I wish to make a visit to Oxford which would include the parking of a motor vehicle on the street. Is this possible? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Non portare il cactus (talk • contribs) 04:11, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

There is no free parking in Oxford city centre – only residents-only parking and expensive public car parks. Free street parking may be available in less central areas. But Wikipedia isn't really the place to ask – you'd be better trying a travel forum such as Lonely Planet or Tripadvisor. Dave.Dunford (talk) 13:10, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

WaggersTALK 15:58, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

question

What are the locational affects on Oxford as a CBD?

Why isn't any of the Roman history of Oxford mentioned? Romans lived there, conducted business, and farmed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.19.124 (talk) 19:06, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

East-West

@User:Dave.Dunford You said in your edit summary: "Oxford is officially in the South East". What official authority says so? My edit from "South West" to "midlands" was based on the fact that we, here (the people that live in Oxford) generally consider this place to be in the Midlands. The Oxford accent sounds like a southwestern accent ('nivver moynd moy dear'). Sure, there are lot of people here who don't have that accent; but it is definitely the local accent.

The next county to the west is Wiltshire, which is definitely South West. The next big city to the north is Coventry, which is definitely Midlands.

The South East generally means the Home Counties (those bordering Greater London), Essex and Kent. Oxfordshire is separated from Greater London by Middlesex, Buckinghamshire and Berkshire, which can all be considered 'Home Counties'.

Oxford is basically in the middle of the south of England. To designate it as East or West is problematic - ITV for Oxford is broadcast from Southampton, for example (and their weather maps have Oxford at roughly top-dead-centre). So I contend that 'Midlands' is the most appropriate designation, considering that both South East and South West have been in the article in the last two days. I accept that 'Midlands' is also troublesome; it normally refers to The Potteries, the Black Country, Derbyshire, Warwickshire, Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire - and in all of those regions they speak with an accent that to my ear sounds 'northern'. But as a shorthand for where to find Oxford, 'Midlands' seems to me the best pointer.

If you can cite an 'official' source that states that Oxford is in the South East, I will give up - it's not a big deal. MrDemeanour (talk) 16:05, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm from Oxfordshire too, originally, and I'm well aware that the area has informal affinities with the Midlands and the Southwest. But Oxfordshire is straightforwardly and definitively in the South East Region. Have a look at South East England and Regions of England. These are formally defined, official, regions, and Oxfordshire is part of the South East England region. There's not really a debate to be had so I haven't looked hard for an official source but will this do? Dave.Dunford (talk) 20:58, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Not really happy with that! You are claiming that Oxford is 'officially' in the South East, on the strength of a list of members of what seems to be an ad-hoc grouping. You say "straightforwardly and definitively"; but without sources, that just means you believe it very strongly. I note that no other towns in Oxfordshire are represented: e.g. Didcot, Abingdon, Banbury. I see that South East England represents Oxfordshire as being in the South East; but I can find no WP:RS. You can't use WP as a source. I can see no RS in Regions of England that explains why Oxfordshire should be considered part of then South East either.

So I don't think that is sufficient to support your position that Oxford is 'officially' in the South East; if it's official, then there must be official documentation. As it happens, I don't believe there exists an official South East. So if that is all you have, then I intend to revert to 'Midlands', because it is more sensible. MrDemeanour (talk) 00:31, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with you, and consider your "beliefs" irrelevant: you quibble about my sourcing and yet you offer no source for your claim that Oxford is in the Midlands, which is bordering on original research. What is South East England Councils if not an official source? Perhaps there is a compromise that states the position more accurately – something explaining regional local government groupings – but for me that just adds pedantic verbiage to the lead (which already explicitly says "in the South East region of England" rather than the more ambiguous, and less accurate, "in South East England"). I acknowledge that in everyday layman's terms Oxford's position is somewhat ambiguous, but claiming straightforwardly that it is "in the Midlands" is not an improvement, and I will revert it if you make that change. In local government terms, Oxfordshire (and thus Oxford) is in the South East England region. Dave.Dunford (talk) 09:59, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Another compromise: how about simply changing it to "a city in England" and avoiding the issue? Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:05, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Tell the truth, it's no biggie for me. It's about as close as you can get to the middle of the country; that's why I think 'Midlands' is a good word. But I'm not up for fighting about it. MrDemeanour (talk) 18:07, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

By the way, I welcome your question "What is South East England Councils". It is you that introduced this purported authority. Apparently they include members of only a few of the legitimate local authorities in the region they claim to be representing. So what is that body that you are citing? I've never heard of it, and I've lived in the region they purport to represent for most of my life. That's not OR; that's just saying that having '.gov.uk' on the end of your URL doesn't make you a reliable source. MrDemeanour (talk) 23:27, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I'd say having a gov.uk domain suffix pretty much confirms that it's a reliable source, since nobody but a government body can use that domain suffix, so I don't think "purported authority" is fair; the regional body exists even though it may not be well known or have many real powers or responsibilities. I'm sorry if I was a bit aggressive earlier, but I do think that if we have to pick an area in which to place Oxfordshire, the South East region has a much stronger case than the Midlands. We have a similar thing up here in north-west Derbyshire, where I live, as it happens: we're well within the sphere of influence of Manchester, which is only 20 miles away, but officially, as part of Derbyshire, we're in the East Midlands. "A city in central England" would be absolutely fine by me. Dave.Dunford (talk) 23:53, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Good-oh, me too. Done. MrDemeanour (talk) 08:16, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Sorry guys, I've changed again without consensus but no way is Oxford in "central England", that is where one will find Birmingham or Nottingham. So I've changed it to "south central" but won't challenge an explained reversion. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:58, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Oh well. I guess south central is OK. I don't want to piss off any broomays. MrDemeanour (talk) 21:48, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I believe that all this dates back to the former Government Office structure, which included a "Government Office for the South East" (GOSE). They were around from 1994 to 2011. The problem, it seems to me, is that Wikipedia is still using this system in infoboxes long after it has been officially abolished. So the problem needs to be escalated to the relevant wikiproject (which is?), probably to remove that parameter completely. (By the way, anybody from the Black Country will definitely say that Oxford is south-east, no way is it Midlands). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

But as Dave.D says, this Association of Councils still exists and is clearly active. Furthermore, it is still enumerated as a Region by the ONS. So it seems to me that it is the only demarcation that satisfies the wp:RS test, anything else is WP:OR or WP:I just don't like it. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 17:47, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Population

Surely it must be possible to cite the 2011 census rather than third party sources of questionable provenance? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:41, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Links in the intro : how much is too much ?

I added three links in the introduction (England, university town and economic base), making a total of 14 links in the intro, after which my edit was reverted. I added a topic on the talk page of the user who reverted my edit, who rightly replied that the current talk page was the adequate one for such a discussion. The policy cited for the reversion was WP:OVERLINK. I clearly don't see my edit as overlinking, especially since two of the three links were to not extremely common expressions (university town and economic base)). The third, England, appears in other cities linked in the intro, such as London, Southampton, or Birmingham. I have thus already modified the intro to link to South East England.

• Regarding university town, other old university towns such as Cambridge, Göttingen, Heidelberg, or Tübingen have the link in their intro, just like Canterbury has a link to cathedral city.
• Regarding economic base, well it's an expression that isn't used that much so I thought it interesting to add a link. But less essential here so I won't argue anymore. Fa suisse (talk) 15:28, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Linking to "University town" is unnecessary; everyone can make sense of that term without a link. If someone thinks it's a good idea to link to some list of other university towns, that should go at the bottom, in the 'related' section. To be honest, I would unlink "South East England". Really, anyone that can't work out where South East England is without a link probably shouldn't bother reading English Wikipedia in the first place. I would also unlink "English-speaking world"; if you can't figure that out without a link, then perhaps English Wikipedia is not for you. I'm not changing it now, can't be bothered.

The general principle is that the lede shouldn't be cluttered up with unnecessary links. I think that means that links should only exist if they might make it easier to understand the base text. MrDemeanour (talk) 16:26, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Couple of observations.

• I tend to remove links to England in leads (except in infoboxes) because of the guideline at WP:OVERLINK that includes, under "What generally should not be linked", the following: "major examples of: geographic features (e.g., the Himalayas, Pacific Ocean, South America), locations (e.g., Berlin; New York City, or just New York if the city context is already clear; London, if the context rules out London, Ontario; Japan, Brazil, Southeast Asia),...".
• I'd personally defend the linking of South East England as it does have a recognised official definition (see the linked article for an explanation) though not even many Brits may be aware of it, there is some doubt of its continued existence, and my opinion is not uncontroversial: see discussion of the validity of these English regions at Talk:Oxford/Archive_1#East-West, in which I was involved, for reference. The perhaps uneasy consensus arrived at back then was for "south central England" (unlinked). Dave.Dunford (talk) 21:22, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Oxford mean low and mean high temperatures

What about these values. Where can they be found? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GS-216.1993 (talk • contribs) 19:34, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

Climate extremes

Climate extremes must be updated. The hottest day on record is July 25 2019 (36.5 °C) and the coldest day on record is December 24 1860 (-17.8 °C). There are also other errors in the weatherbox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GS-216.1993 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Oxfordian

I was born in Oxford 65 years ago, went to school in Oxford, and live in Oxford now. I was never a university student at Oxford.

I've never heard of an Oxfordian. MrDemeanour (talk) 05:55, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I was born in oxford 16 years ago, currently go to school here and I've definitely heard oxfordian before, its not widely used because there aren't many contexts and its a bit janky but its 100% correct and usable 2A00:23C7:599F:9B01:9821:2BD1:5EFC:6980 (talk) 23:48, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Lived in Oxford for a very long time. Heard of Oxfordian but nobody actually uses it.

CipherRephic (talk) 22:41, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

History - Late Modern

Oxford became a county borough in November 1889, not 1890 (by statute 52 Vict., c. xv) 86.176.180.111 (talk) 08:53, 12 August 2021 (UTC) balrik vostog.

Is this the right Benjamin Jones?

In the list of those granted Freedom of the City, there is a Benjamin R. Jones. He is wikilinked to Benjamin R. Jones (whose middle name is indeed Rowland), but it is not at all clear that he is the same person as the Benjamin Rowland-Jones (note hyphenated surname) who is listed in the cite.--Verbarson (talk) 16:50, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Needs transposing

I want to replicate here the comment I made on the 'History of Oxford' page on 9/4/15: This article seems to be summarising the History section of the article about Oxford as a city. The two pieces need transposing.

Is it acceptable for an editor to perform this swap, as described? Valetude (talk) 04:26, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Update needed

Much of this article is now seriously dated. Issues that stand out are the redevelopment of the Westgate shopping centre and the subsequent changes to the city centre economic geography, the direct rail service to London Marylebone, and the end of Oxford Bus express services to London. There are numerous others. --Ef80 (talk) 18:07, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

So why not go ahead and do it? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 20:15, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

“15-minute city”

A proposal for a 15 minute city has led to Oxford being attacked by conspiracy theorists.[4]. Doug Weller talk 09:36, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

I find the protests as boneheaded as I assume you do, but I wouldn't use the word 'attacked', exactly... the protest looked peaceful (at least when I last went by). — Jumbo T (talk) 14:23, 18 February 2023 (UTC)