Talk:Painted Chamber

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Messy but there may be useful info in here...

Edited by Gordon J Sheppard as follows:

The Painted Chamber of the House of Commons, during the days of 4th, 5th, 6th of February 1688 held what was, probably, the most important Conference and Debate of the whole of British history. Entirely determining, the very way that the British are governed today. In a prolonged and oft heated debate of both Lords and Commons of the “Convention” (Parliament of 1688), known as “The Debate at Large”, the Conference, at the request of the Commons, was to determine the words:

"ABDICATED" and "THAT THE THRONE IS THEREBY VACANT”

This was: In consideration of the Commons Vote; and Resolution, Of the 28th day of January 1688: That: (In House of Commons jargon)

Resolved, That King James the Second, Having Endeavoured to Subvert the Constitution of the Kingdom, by Breaking the Original Contract between King and People; and by the advice of Jesuits, and other Wicked Persons, having violated the Fundamental Laws, and Withdrawn himself out of the Kingdom, hath Abdicated the Government. and that the Throne is thereby Vacant.

So Ordered.

The speeches of this Conference, irrefutably, make it clear; and the Commons resolution and Lords concurrence "without Alteration," of 7th February 1688, make it even clearer in law; that when the Monarch fails to provide that, ‘Protection of the People’ determined by the Original Contract, then the Monarch maladministers Monarchy; and the Throne is thereby Vacant. There are none that can dispute this, whether the date is 1688, or today in 2008; The Statute in Force: “Bill of Right” of 1688" has never been amended. In English Law, it is as valid today, as it was then.

It is the "Speeches of this Special Conference" that provides the evidence in support of this; but it is the concurrence of the Lords conclusions of 7th February 1688, "Without Alterations”; that ensures the precedent in English Law.

It was the determination of both Lords and Commons in this Special Conference of those days in the Painted Chamber, that provided parliament with the legal instrument to get rid of a living and lawful King. ‘Without removing his Head’. James the Second was not executed like Charles 1st was. James was still alive at the time of the Conference, and, in the ‘line of succession’ he was still the lawful King. Parliament, however, did not want him as King. Parliament wanted “William of Orange” as King. James the Second had fled to France at Prince William’s invasion, and the “Convention” was thereby able to determine that he had “Withdrawn himself out of the Kingdom” and that he had abandoned Government; “breaking the original contract that he had with the people"; and thereby he had abdicated the Throne.

It was directly due to this Conference and its determinations that, subsequently, the Convention drew up a series of obligations that William of Orange had to accept before being offered the Throne. The Convention presented this to William of Orange in a document known as the “Declaration of Rights” on 13 February 1688; which upon Williams acceptance of it, eventually, after its passage through parliament, became the Bill of Rights 1689. Being Granted the Royal Assent in December 1689. One of the obligations that William had to accept as King was, Article 9.

Article 9 of the Bill of Rights 1689:

“That the Freedome of Speech and Debates or Proceedings of Parlyament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any Court or Place outside of Parlyament.”

This is the legal instrument whereby Parliament claims its “Supremacy” today. It is the legal instrument whereby Parliament claims that it has the right to do anything, and say anything, without any right of challenge. And the British Courts uphold that “Supremacy”, denying all ‘right of challenge’ from within law. It is the legal instrument by which Members of Parliament, from within Parliament, may criticise ridicule vilify and defame anyone they please - claiming the ‘privilege of parliament. And it is this legal instrument that has enabled Parliament to create and establish the, Office of the Whips, through whose power and influence all British Law is created today.

There is no doubt whatsoever, that the Painted Chamber of the House of Commons has played a great part in how the British are governed today.Birdsaflyinghigh (talk) 16:01, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Reference: “The Debate at Large” – A Parliamentary History of the Glorious Revolution, by DAVID LEWIS JONES, Her Majesties Stationery Office, ISBN 0 11 701390 0; First published 1988