Talk:Palais Garnier

It was one of the counterweights to the reflector above the chandelier that fell

My first ever comment on wikipedia, I hope I get this right. Article says it was a counterweight to the chandelier. It wasn't. It was one of the six counterweights to the reflector above the chandelier that fell down a flue,according to contemporary newspaper articles. 95.109.104.246 (talk) 18:22, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Please provide a source for the information. --Robert.Allen (talk) 18:42, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Untitled

I find it hard to believe that this is the same Paris hotel that was burned the other day. Considering how high profile the incident was, i had expected to have it updated. Is this the same building mentioned in this article or due this article refers to a different building? [1]

A 'different building. -- Viajero 23:54, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I keep finding different sources--some say that building began in 1857, like this article does, and others claim that building didn't begin until 1860 or 1862. I read (though I remain skeptical about Leroux's reliability as a source, since Phantom is a work of fiction) that it took 8 pumps 8 months to lower the underground lake enough that they could build. Does anyone have any further information on that?

I have added several reference sources and corrected some of the text based primarily on the chronology established by the Beauvert book.:Beauvert notes that it took "weeks" of pumping; Zeitz says 8 months; no one mentions the number of pumps.

Vivaverdi 23:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Garnier is said to have designed the Paris' opera lobby after the lobby of the Grand Theatre in Bordeaux, a magnificent 18th century opera house (designed by Victor Louis)that Haussmann knew very well (he was Prefect in Bordeaux for over 10 years)and that Napoleon III visited. The Bordeaux'Opera has an underground "lake" a reservoir fed by an undeground river nearby. J-L B.

---

'Is there a source for the Trivia' section? Not even our own Phantom of the Opera suggests that there was a real legend outside of Gaston Leroux's work. 209.92.136.131 20:22, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Who knows? It's pretty speculative, and a good candidate for deletion in my opion. Any more thoughts? I had removed from the main body of the text a week or so ago and put it down below in "Trivia", but am just as happy to see it go. Vivaverdi 23:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

here I'll do it Carptrash 01:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

During the Palais Garnier's contruction and after, a few mysterious deaths were reported. The main link between them was that all the victims were found hanged. Rumors abound that there were ghosts dwelling inside this opera house. These deaths, coupled with the fire which broke out during the construction, makes it appear that there may have been a man who lurked in the shadows.

Paris Opera

Isn't it still often called the "Paris Opera," in spite of the existence of the Opera Bastille? john k 17:43, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe. Vivaverdi 18:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I think only the Ballet company is now resident. The article should state whether opera performances are common or not, and whether they are only by visiting ensembles. Sparafucil (talk) 20:44, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Opera performances are not common at all. The Palais Garnier and its predecessor, the "old Opéra": the Théâtre de l'Académie Royale de Musique - have always been reffered to as the Paris Opéra, or simply as the Opéra. Even though the opera company moved to the Opéra Bastille, the Palais Garnier still retains the name, and likely always will. I myself am still a little puzzled over why the opera company moved. -Mrlopez2681 04:58, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Paris Opera isn't a building it's an institution. All these buildings are part of it. Aesma (talk) 02:13, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Ladyghost site

Can someone more familiar with the subject please review this site to determine if it is appropriate?--Drat (Talk) 12:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is. 85.197.135.225 (talk) 20:58, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

name of article?

Why is this article called "Palais Garnier" if this is an opera house? The French Wiki has this article under "Opera Garnier". Case for a rename? Gryffindor 11:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The building is known under both names. The Paris National Opera (the institution that runs the place as well as the Bastille Opera House) uses the name "Palais Garnier" on the tickets, websites etc., possibly to emphasize the prestige and luxury of the place. (I think, but am not sure, that its official, legal name is the théâtre national de l’Opéra.) 83.199.71.25 (talk) 14:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the name of this building officially was Opera Garnier, but soon after it was dubbed the Palais Garnier by the citizens of Paris. So I guess you could say that would be a reason to rename, considering Opera Garnier to be it's first and official name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.56.158.83 (talk) 17:14, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Richard Langham Smith in The New Grove Dictionary of Opera, vol. 3, p. 874 (1992), calls the building the Palais Garnier. Alicia Levin calls it the Salle Garnier [in her article "A Documentary Overview of Musical Theaters in Paris, 1830–1900" in Fauser, Annegret, ed.; Everist, Mark, ed. (2009). Music, theater, and cultural transfer. Paris, 1830–1914, p. 383. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-23926-2]. Spire Pitou calls it the Garnier Palace [in his book The Paris Opéra: an encyclopedia of operas, ballets, composers, and performers, vol. 1, p. 59. Greenwod Press (1983)]. The names Opéra, Paris Opéra, Théâtre National de l'Opéra, etc. are reserved for the opera company, and not used for the building. In common usage these terms may have sometimes been applied interchangeably for the company or the building, but that can result in confusion. During its history the company used a very large number of names, many buildings (about 14), and changed the official name for the building when the company name changed. The official names are extremely confusing. Palais Garnier or Salle Garnier would have been understood to refer to the actual building at any point in its history, since it has always been very well known that Garnier designed it, and that is undoubtedly why these musicologists decided to use those names. The confusing alternative names that are now found in the lead, i.e., Opéra de Paris and Paris Opéra, should be removed. since the references do not support their use. Based on the sources I have, I would suggest keeping Palais Garnier as the main name and giving Salle Garnier as the alternative name. If there is a good reference supporting the use of Opéra Garnier, then we should add that as well, but I do not have one. Also, in the cited sources the names are not italicized, so italics should probably not be used. --Robert.Allen (talk) 10:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Searching the WorldCat database I found two titles which use Opéra Garnier:

• The Opéra Garnier: a spectacular celebration of the bourgeoisie by Lauren Burk
• Grand operas: Chicagoan and Parisian interpretations of the totalizing art, 1860-1895 ; a case study of the Auditorium and the Opéra Garnier by Nora Brennan Morrison

Opéra Garnier was also very popular in travel and guide books (searching Google Books). Salle Garnier was more frequently used for the theatre of the Opéra de Monte Carlo. So far Levin is the only source I have seen that uses it for the Palais Garnier. I think this is enough information to rewrite the lead a bit, so I'm going to go ahead and do it. Hopefully other editors will be OK with the changes. --Robert.Allen (talk) 19:34, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit strange that the article claims that the building is commonly called the "Paris Opéra" (with an acute accent). I've never heard anyone call it "Paris Opéra" and pronounce both words or the second word as in French. It seems that the French term "Paris-Opéra" refers to the area of Paris around the building and the Opéra metro station, not the building itself. If "Paris Opéra" is exclusively an English term when used to describe the building, then the acute accent should be dropped because it is not pronounced in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.58.17.163 (talk) 17:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

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Opéra Populaire

The New Grove Dictionary of Opera lists three theaters that on occasion used the name "Opéra Populaire": 1) the Théâtre du Châtelet for one month in 1874; 2) the Théâtre de la Gaîté in 1879–1880; 3) the Théâtre du Château d'Eau in 1879–82, 1883–84, and 1900–01. (This information is probably based on Lecomte 1905, p. 46). I am removing the name from the info box in this article. If it is added again, a source should probably be provided. --Robert.Allen (talk) 20:47, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I may have found a possible source for the confusion. The Opéra Populaire at the Château d'Eau was at one time under the direction of a man also named Garnier. See Almanach des spectacles, vol 11 (1884), p. 69. --Robert.Allen (talk) 21:22, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

The name Palais Garnier

The article stated the theatre was not named Palais Garnier until 1989 when the Opéra Bastille opened. There are some references to this name in books published in the 1890s, which are available at Google Books. (see here). I changed the lead to reflect this. --Robert.Allen (talk) 12:02, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

It's been widely known as Palais Garnier in and outside of France all through its history. Many books on architecture use that name for instance - as noted in the article, the Opera is a high point of the resurgence and reshaping of Paris during Napoleon III, and an undisputed masterpiece (Le Corbusier's criticism isn't really about this building specifically; he hated all kinds of showy, ebullient 18th-19th century architecture and would have said the same about the Palace of Westminster or the Sagrada Familia). 83.254.154.164 (talk) 03:07, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

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Charles Garnier's Opéra: Architecture and Interior Decor (2004) - please check p. 94

If you have access to this book, could you please check a translated bit from Le théâtre, on page 94? On page 205 of the edition of Le théâtre at Google Books, the sentence in question begins, "Qui pourrait donner á la salle cette joyeuse animation...", but its translation is quoted in this article as "What else could fill the theatre...". Is the mistake in the translation, or in the W article? Thank you! Fishlandia (talk) 10:43, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I just noticed this comment now. I double-checked, and the translation as quoted was not totally accurate, so I fixed it. The translation from French is by Charles Penwarden, as mentioned in the bibliographic citation. It's not a literal translation but seems fine to me. --Robert.Allen (talk) 02:48, 27 May 2020 (UTC)