Talk:Pancho Gonzales

Article is incomprehensible

No disrespect but reading this you can't understand it at all.

"He won 15 major singles titles, including 2 U.S. National Singles Championships in 1948 and 1949 and 13 Professional Grand Slam titles".

So 15 majors = 2 US titles + 13 pro slams.

So which 13 are those? The article lists his pro slam titles and there are 12 if you abide by 3 pro majors, and there are 15 if you abide by counting TOC.

Professional majors US Pro W (1953, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961) Wembley Pro W (1950, 1951, 1952, 1956) French Pro F (1956, 1961) TOC W (1957, 1958, 1959)

So shouldn't article say he won 17 majors or if you don't count TOC, then it's 14.

I am not even arguing what is a slam, what is a major here, I'm simply trying to say the article is confusing.

If he has won 2 amateur slams + 12 "main" pro majors + 3 TOC majors, then his record is either: 2 (very strict), or 14 (counting pro majors), or 17 (counting even TOC).

It simply can't be 15.

You are absolutely correct. It should be 14 majors. The TOC is a separate entity from the Grand Slam tournaments and the Pro Slam tournaments. The TOC is actually in the wrong place in our infoboxes, but it's in the process of being corrected. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:35, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

He won two U.S. Pro's in 1954, the info box should mention that.Tennisedu (talk) 08:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

1965 Money List

Tennishistory1877, this recent citation is not linked so that we could see the contents, but I doubt that the end of year tour money list included the Dallas win worth $8,000. That Dallas money was not included in the totals for the U.S. tour, so I doubt that they would include it for the year tally. Adding in the Dallas money might make a difference.Tennisedu (talk) 04:46, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

https://www.newspapers.com/image/463382037/ It says the prize money figures for 1965 were: Rod Laver $65,495, Rosewall $51,650, Gimeno £42,350, Buchholz $37,800, Gonzales $20,000. Adding $8,000 to Gonzales' total for the Dallas made for TV event makes $28,000, still way off Buchholz let alone Laver. And you, without any citation to back up your argument, said Gonzales was probably the top money winner in 1965. The facts speak for themselves (as always). Tennishistory1877 (talk) 08:48, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

That is not an official list, it comes from an off-the-cuff interview from "Jack Kramer, former player and present promoter," (?), Kramer was no longer promoter as of 1962. Exactly $20,000? So that means Gonzales made -$7,000, a negative amount of money, in Europe. You think those are accurate numbers? Some joke.Tennisedu (talk) 16:13, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

This latest post from you Tennisedu is so delusional and full of such basic errors, I struggle to know how to respond to it. Firstly, Gonzales did not play in Europe in 1965 (Laver, Rosewall, Gimeno and Buchholz did). Secondly the two figures for Gonzales' prize money: on 20 July the article stated he had earned $18,945 and by the end of year $20,000. He played little after the 20 July. -$7,000 is a complete work of fiction. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 20:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Fiction? Now, who is being delusional. The figure of $26,945 represents his total winnings as of the U.S. circuit, including the Dallas CBS event, the largest prize money in pro tennis. Yes, the Dallas was played in 1965.Tennisedu (talk) 22:56, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Obviously if the earlier figure excludes the CBS Pro at Dallas, so does the later figure!!! Hence $18,945 on 20 July and $20,000 at the end of the year. -$7,000 is a work of fiction that you have concocted. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 09:46, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

No concoction, just reading the newspapers. The official money list excluded Gonzales' $8,000 from Dallas.Tennisedu (talk) 16:55, 20 April 2022 (UTC)