Talk:Panic! at the Disco/Archive 1

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Started 09/04/2006 Hackajar 06:20, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

March 2006 - August 2006 + genre debate

Initial text

11/03/06 - Vandalism took place, I reverted it twice as I was browsing the article at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sovvy (talk • contribs) 14:20, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Platinum Status

Just as FYI Billboard[1] Reports this album as Platinum. Hackajar 11:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I should add, soundscan does NOT have more then 1mil on their tab even though RIAA issued this landmark! so until (ok 'if') they hit 1mil on soundscan this will look weird on main page. Blink 182 discog does not even have approx sales, could just remove that number in liue of plat status, thoughts? Hackajar 11:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Question

Not sure where to put this, put does anyone know the name of the green-eyed guy featured in the video "I Write Sins, Not Tragedies?" I'm pretty sure he is not a member of the band.

My guess is he's just some actor. He's definitely not in the band Jubella 19:09, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I just found out through some searching that his name is Daniel Isaac, and he has a myspace at: http://www.myspace.com/Daniel_Isaac - Fan

yea his names daniel issac! i knew that and didnt need a website!

New music video

I really suck at making Wikipedia articles or adding on to them, besides from making small corrections. Can someone add information on their new music video?

"Lying is.." If so, I made that change. All I know is that recorded it because they said it at a concert I went to in June. It probably won't be out for a while though. --Freddy Jade 10:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

More content

I added some more content. I plan to add more later, but I felt this page was lacking quite a lot of things. --Dess 02:51, 23 April 2006 (UTC) I added a trivia sectoin--Dess 01:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

"The Only Difference" single

I was wondering if it's appropriate to list "The Only Difference between Martyrdom and Suicide Is Press Coverage" as one of the singles. I mean, it made all these download and single charts, but there is neither a music video for the song nor a CD/vinyl release. I'm not exactly sure as to what qualifies as a single, I just feel that listing it like this might give false notions. --HarryCane 18:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

meh: most of the sOngs mentioned have not been released on tv, radio etc. But they are tracks on the released album, which makes it a single—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.28.69.34 (talk • contribs) .

So you're saying album track=single? Sorry, lad, but that's just wrong... --HarryCane 13:37, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

"The Only Difference" was the first single released from the album. It was released for radio promotion only. There is no music video. However, since it was issued on radio first, this qualifies it as the first single from the album. Also, I must agree that album tracks do not make singles. Only radio, television, or separate release from an album qualifies a song as a single.

Jon as a member.

I was wondering if Jon Walker should be labled as a member considering they have not named him on sites such as Purevolume etc. naming only Brendon, Ryan and Spencer. It was also stated on the website that "Right now our friend jon is going to be filling in" I just wanted to know what everyone thought before I changed it.

I agree. --HarryCane 09:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

It has been suggested that Jon will be payed as a crew member, much the same as the additional musicians who will accompany them on the upcoming tour. I suggest a seperate section (possible entitled 'crew members') should be added.

I have just added Jon as a member, as his name has shown up on Myspace. Apparently Ryan, Brendon and Jon do vocals now too. Oh and I was also wondering if we should add their new myspace image instead of the old one???

Good idea, I'm on it. --HarryCane 18:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Split-up

Does anyone believe the recent departure of Brent may lead to the split of the band? even it it doesnt lead to that it could possibly hit the band hard! --Matt9m5 19:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

But it's better if you do video notes

When I saw this video I thought it was a big rip on Eyes Wide Shut, with all the masks, and the whole being yelled at by that woman in the cell (I thought she was either supposed to be Nicole Kidman, or that woman who recognises him at the underground club), what do you think? Should "Also, the club featured in this video does bare some resemblance to the party that tom cruise attends in Eyes Wide Shut". What do you think? Help plz 04:32, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe not a "rip" but a reference.

• If it was a reference, it was a very subtle one, Eyes Wide Shut had cloaks and a ritual, with open sexualaity, not being wisked into a room. It was also set in modern times of Rich elite, not guy who pays for "this dumpy apartment" (my 2c) Hackajar 15:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Chart positions

Would it bother anybody if I moved all the chart positions from the discography to the respective album/singles articles? I find the section extremely cluttered, and I think the chart positions are better suited in the seperate articles anyway. Also, all of these chart positions need citation, which will be tricky as I wouldn't know how to find e.g. old iTunes charts. --HarryCane 13:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

It should be noted that these suggestions were being made only AFTER I voted Keep for The_Only_Difference_Between_Martyrdom_And_Suicide_Is_Press_Coverage and also added said charts to main page. Which conforms to many band pages, see Weezer, Angels_and_airwaves, Fall_out_boy, Brittney_Spears, Dr_Dre or 30_seconds_to_mars just to name a few. Consider talking to me on my talk page User_talk:Hackajar and not reverting P!atD pages due to lack of sharing my opinion! Hackajar 12:32, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Straight up lie. I made this suggestion a whole day before both your vote and your undiscussed changes to the article. I couldn't care less about your vote. --HarryCane 12:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Where was "Point-of-View" spam?Hackajar 14:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Parts referred to were accientally merged with chart updates, not my own Hackajar 16:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

• Please allow a "cooling off" period to Chart Positioning, and reach out to other users in this matter. You are running very close to the 3RR rule! Hackajar 16:26, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

see Wikipedia:Three-revert_rule

Clean up

Since the biography starts with an ambiguous "he", as someone who knows nothing about the band I have no idea what this is talking about. The biography should be about the fan, not tidbits about the lead singer, that should be left to his own page. Someone who knows something, please rewrite this section. jordan 13:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and since tidbits of Brendon Urie are on this page and on his own page my question is WHY CAN'T RYAN ROSS HAVE HIS OWN PAGE?? This is disturbing me and I want Ryan [every member as a matter of fact] to have their own page. This way we can learn more about the indivdual not just tidbits about them in the bands Biography. LoserKidEmx3 03:14, 08 August 2006 (UTC)

Ryan Ross had an article, which was deleted because it either violated a Wikipedia policy or was voted for deletion. It was then re-created several times, until it was blocked from re-creation. As it appears, it is not anymore. This is a free encyclopedia, so if you want an article this badly, go ahead and create it. If it's informative, good (as far as formatting, referencing and stating its notability goes), and not violating any Wikipedia rules, it won't be deleted again. Although, I find the notability of all members' own pages very questionable and I doubt you will be able to find enough verifiable information on each one. --HarryCane 14:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Order in Biography

I would like to point out that the article is a little out of order. For some reason, it lists Brent "leaving the band" AFTER the "Lying is the Most Fun..." video, however, the "Lying..." video was not filmed until after he was fired. Same with the mention of the Snakes on a Plane soundtrack, that should be the very last thing listed because it is the most recent. Although, it may not be important enough to list in their biography at all. --MJB12 17:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. A bio should be in cronological order Hackajar 10:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Page move

I would like to address the recent page move (which by the way borders on page move vandalism) by User:Evanreyes. Wikipedia's policies clearly state that the preposition "at" not be capitalised in band names and album titles. Also, the band's latest release ("Lying Is the Most Fun a Girl Can Have without Taking Her Clothes Off") uses the exact same capitalisation rules. Same goes for the song titles said user likes to change. A lot of cleanup and moving back needs to be done. --HarryCane 12:29, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

It should be noted that User:Evanreyes was found editing my personal talk page renaming the 'a' letters in title, which (IMHO ALERT) seems like a genocide style attempt to make one's point (that is to make new argument 'well no one else seems to be pointing to that article! so it should be changed!).Hackajar 14:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I am open to discussing the matter, however, the song titles should not have "Without" and "Between" lowercase. The naming conventions policy that User:HarryCane is so enamored with clearly states that "Words of five letters or longer are generally capitalized, regardless of their part of speech." It's stilly to make those two words lowercase. Also, I am of the opinion that if the band chose to name themselves Panic! At the Disco, we shouldn't ignore that. I realize that English usage rules and Wikipedia conventions say we should make it lowercase, however band names are created by the band themselves, and therefore can be fudged a little. Also, the argument that "many websites have every word capitalized" is not valid, since many websites capitalize every word in every band, song, and album title irrationally. HarryCane is not the authority on Wikipedia or this band, and should not be treated as such. Evan Reyes 19:40, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I apologize for editing users' talk pages. I did not realize this was explicitly against Wikipedia's policies at the time. It won't happen again. Evan Reyes 19:45, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Nobody said I was, or (sadly) treated me like, the authority on Wikipedia or this band. I'm just applying WP conventions. The five letter thing was recently added (on August 6), which is why I wasn't familiar with that certain rule. My apologies for the song title part. As for the band name, the capitalized "At" is way too inconsequent for it to be an avowed unique spelling (see e.g. hellogoodbye). The only source you're citing is the band's MySpace profile, which, frankly, is likely to be run by some label employee who has little to do with the band itself. --HarryCane 20:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm with Harrycane here. The article should be at Panic! at the Disco per WP:NC and moving it (twice!) without prior discussion was wrong. --Fritz S. (Talk) 20:06, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth (which likely isn't much, since it's pretty irrelevant), I'd like the record to show that I hate this band. I think they're one of the least creative, pathetic excuses for music in the industry today. I simply did what I felt was right, and I'm certainly not going to feel any regret because of the actions of one HarryCane. Evan Reyes 20:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

FWIW HC 'says' he is fan of band, yet has some anti-P!atD behavior all the same. No one cares if you like band or not, but they do care if you make drastic changes like that without bringing it up here first!(is the horse dead yet?)Hackajar 08:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I'm not here to make you feel regret, Evan. And I wouldn't call my behavior "anti-P!atD", but that's a different issue alltogether... :) My question however is, if you hate this band so much, why do you take this much time editing P!atD-related articles, rather than articles of bands you do like? --HarryCane 09:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Clean-up and wikify

The following list of bands were used to compare cleaness of article: Angels and Airwaves,The Killers (band),Fall out boy,Cute is what we aim for,Bush_(band),Nofx,Green day. Based on this sampling, article apears to be cleaned-up from July request to do so. Removing cleanup tag. Please flame me here if you thing there is still some more work to do. Hackajar 18:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikify

I have added wikify notice to history section. It has become bloated and out of order. I would like to do a good re-write, and am seeking people that would like to help. This work would start on Wednesday. If you would like to help out, please note so here Hackajar 13:03, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

TODO List:

• Create Sub-sections to history
• Add more references, and change current ones to WP:CITE format
• Run though spell checker
• Fact check existing content
• Research and cite gaps in history

Genre debate

Currently Being Mediated

1. The genre is currently being mediated by WP:Mediation_Cabal.
2. Keep genre frozen while this is peer reviewed by that mediation board.
3. Add your input and thoughts HERE in talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hackajar (talk • contribs)

The talk page was getting too large (over 48kb) and I decided to archive all genre discussions. The archive can be found at Talk:Panic! at the Disco/Genre debate. A rough consensus reached I felt was to not classify the band as emo, nor as electronica, but as pop punk and/or dance-punk due to their strong influences from (pop) punk bands such as blink-182. If you feel the band's genre has been discussed insufficiently, feel free to do so on this talk page. --HarryCane 21:37, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

This was not correct to do. Half the comments in that discussion were IP addresses and could be construded as sock puppets, some comments were "they just suck" others mention that they ARE emo, and some challenged their status, and blink-182, as pop-punk. The fact is blink-182 IS pop-punk, when a punk band becomes so popular that they become pop-punk (see album Dude Ranch for example of blink punk). Note that I personally don't see them as emo but main stream press and the band themselfs do. It is not what we as wikipedian's feel they are but how they are dubbed by press and themselfs that count. This may be at a level where we need a nutral admin come in and explain wiki policy on who gets to determin what they are dubbed on wikipedia perhaps. Here are some links to press that cover them as emo, pop-punk, etc. [2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]Hackajar 14:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I say leave it as it is now. Their music pretty much falls into those genres. Vicer 08:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

This issue obviously needs clarification. I have opened an informal mediation though WP:Mediation_Cabal. I would suggest that people take a "Cooling off" period while mediation goes though.Hackajar 15:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I would say that a consensus was not agreed upon. Half of the comments on the page were anonymous trolls that said "Panic! At The Disco SuckS! So there not emo", or "Emo sucks, so panic! at the disco is not emo". I would say that nothing there was official, and you have no right to tell any other editor what to put there. I'll just leave it as Alternative Rock with dance influences, but I wouldn't suggest telling other editors what to do. Thanks. --DieHard2k5 22:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Just because you think some of them MIGHT be sock puppets in no way discredits them. Either way I don't have a problem with saying they are an alternative rock band with dance/emo influences. We should leave it as that.--Terronez 00:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

• Has anyone reviewed the Red Hot Chili Peppers article? The way their intro is setup might be a good way to do P!AtD. For those that don't want to investigate, they just state they are a rock band, and in next paragraph mention what other style's they fuse into their music. Thoughts? Hackajar 08:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

That sounds good to me.--Terronez 15:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

And it's exactly what I did. See [11], [12] and [13]. But other users tend to revert it. BTW, the band repeatedly stated that they have no affiliation whatsoever with emo. Hackajar, I'm sorry but I don't know where you get from that they do. I felt a consensus on the emo thing had been reached not because of the anons' "P!ATD and emo sux"-comments, but based on what me and User:Bloodlvst discussed under "This band is NOT emo", and all comments by User:Iii9ix3, among others, which were a little more intelligent than most of the IPs' edits. But if you guys want to continue making me look like I'm everything that's wrong with the artilce by "covering up the discussion" and "deciding for myself", go ahead. This article has long gone down the drain anyway. --HarryCane 18:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, seeing as you all can't figure it out, I went with Hackajar's solution. Look okay? --DieHard2k5 18:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

• Their official Myspace profile says, "Rock/ Big Beat/ Techno", but I've been a musician for several years and they seem to fit in better with the new pop punk that's been coming out lately which does lean towards the emo side not to mention that the title of one of their songs is "The Only Difference Between Martyrdom and SUICIDE Is Press Coverage". I would also like to make it known that blink-182 is actually more skater punk than pop punk so it wouldn't really be an example. Seppukukaishaku 20:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I think that rather than debating what kind of band they are, we should just state what kind of band they say they are. Really, genre categories are fairly fluid, especially in modern music. We could spend months arguing what kind of music they play. --Kerowyn ^{Leave a note} 03:24, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The thing that suckls about that idea is that theyve contradicted themselves tryingf to do that.--Terronez 04:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

This is a good point. In serach for them making statements about genre they fit into, they mention in video interviews that they "are like Fall out Boy...But don't forget about Third Eye Blind". Fall out Boy is emo, Third Eye Blind are not. I do like the idea of just calling them alt rock, and mentioning "musical influences". Hopefully this will help. Hackajar 07:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

• Ok look, they are Emo. Have you seen the clothes they wear? But COME ON YOU GUYS. They're damn similar to Fall Out Boy, and they're on an Emo/Indie record label. (People on it like Fall Out Boy, Less Than Jake, The Academy Is...). You have to consider the record company, and stage performance and attitude also. Their album actually is two different genres. 1-8 is Electronica, and 9-13 is just unexplainable. So my thinking right now would be:

Emo

Electronica

Indie Rock

Hope this helps! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.64.223.203 (talk • contribs)

• Panic! At the Disco has never struck me as emo. What clothes they wear doesn't have much of an effect on their music genre. One genre name I'm fond of using for them is Powerpop, for the upbeatness of their music that isn't quite Pop or Dance, though Rock is certainly present. Powerpop doesn't immediately label a band as having Techno or Pop music, but also doesn't throw them into the overcomplicated groups of Emo and Post-Sub-Pop-Skater-Punk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.253.254.200 (talk • contribs)

Going by what you guys have said, I'd say what I added is perfect. Alternative rock is the main genre, and I added something about a fusion of pop punk, emo, electronica, dance, and indie rock. Sound good? --DieHard2k5 00:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I really wish people would consider the atual MUSIC isntead of the clothes a band wore before being so quick to call them emo. Powerpop is the best thing I could use to describe them. Emo is hardcore and I could not see any way to call them hardcore.--Terronez 03:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I know but even though the genre of music is not hardcore, you have to see what the band is like. But Alt Rock? Are you friggin kidding me? More like Indie Rock. I'll accept not getting emo on, but you have to take off that crap Alt Rock label, and replace it with Indie Rock, Electronica, and I'll go with Power pop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.64.223.203 (talk • contribs)

Alternative rock is a vague description more than it is a specific type of music, so I don't see how they'd be mislabeled with it. But Powerpop sounds good. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.212.0.104 (talk • contribs)

Alt Rock is too vague a term, because Indie Rock is a subgenre of Alt, and if you listen to Panic, you'll find they lean more towards the Indie section, because they ain't hardcore, which Alt Rock is based in. So we all agree on Powerpop as one genre? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.64.223.203 (talk • contribs)

---

In my opinion it's:

• pop punk (beacuse P!ATD is melodic and clean-sounding),
• indie rock (that's underground music)

--Mataga 18:06, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I forgot. - Dance-punk

--Mataga 17:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

They are in no way related to punk. Powerpop isn't exclusive to pop, really more to rock, so we'll take Powerpop for starters. Now we can minus out any strand of emo, because I've found that they ain't. Now we move to Electronica. If you listen to their music (tracs 1-8 on A Fever You Can't Sweat Out), you'll find that many of their sound is used with synthesizers and drum-machines. So now we have Electronica. And let's get much more specific and change Alt Rock to Indie Rock, a subgenre, not as hardcore as regular Alternative. So take this:

Indie Rock Electronica Powerpop Hope my comments help!

Let it go. We have the genre there, and we have a citation. I'd say what I've included there is good enough. --DieHard2k5

I agree Hackajar 05:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

What genre is Panic! anyways?

Keep this topic at top of page please! it is an ongoing debate!

Currently they are dubbed electronic/emo/pop-punk. Please make your case HERE IN TALK PAGE if you feel different about this issue!

• "I would say they are alternative rock"

• "This band sucks big time why do you people care so much?!?!?!?!!?!?"

• "This Las Vegas band strives to create a unique sound by blending melody-driven rock with dance. This is a rock record you can dance to; that's fun and sincere at the same time. Produced by Matt Squire (Northstar, The Explosion, The Receiving End Of Sirens). Panic! At The Disco is the first band signed to Pete Wentz's (Fall Out Boy) Decaydance Records, a Fueled By Ramen imprint label. "...Imagine The Faint meets The Postal Service with all of the pop sensibilities of a Blink 182" - Peter Wentz. Touring with Fall Out Boy, The Starting Line, Motion City Soundtrack, and Boys Night Out this fall."[14] Hackajar 23:10, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

• In their exclusive in-studio session, the young rockers play a high-energy set of their emo-styled punk. [15]Hackajar 00:11, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

• Panic! At The Disco Carry Emo-Punk Banner Into VMAs With Five Noms [16] Hackajar 00:16, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

• I concer with the current dub. (although pop punk doesn't need a dash, but that's a different debate). Xsxex 06:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

• Which do you mean, because currently there are two in use ("pop-punk/emo" and "Dance-punk, emo")? And aside from all the sources quoted, at the end of the day emo is a subcategory of hardcore punk, and let's be honest, is this band really to be considered a hardcore band? --HarryCane 12:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see anything emo about them.

• They are pop-punk. Period. Now, you could say that they are also influenced by emo and electronica, but, seriously, if you think this band's genre is anything other than pop-punk, you're either stupid or too anxious to throw genres around. POP-PUNK. You heard it here. Roofi's Publicist 04:31, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• I'd be curious to hear what else you think is "pop-punk". What does a new band that got signed to a major label for playing dance music on guitars before they even toured have to do with ANY sort of punk?

Green Day, Blink-182, New Found Glory, Relient K, Good Charlotte... and Panic! at the Disco. These are examples of pop-punk bands, anonymous person who didn't sign your name with four tildes. Also, I'm not saying they fit perfectly into the pop-punk mold; I'm saying that if you could use only one genre to describe this band, pop-punk would be most accurate. I would personally describe Panic! as a "pop-punk band with emo and electronica influences." Roofi's Publicist 15:22, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, AMG says they're pop-punk [17]. Roofi's Publicist 03:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• panic is pop-punk/power pop. look at my posts in other topics for reasons. To HarryCane: Hardcore Punk and Hardcore are different. Emo is a subgenre of hardcore. Hardcore punk is a subgenre of punk. To Hackajar: emo(or more general, hardcore) and punk are two totally different genres, but they are also the two of the most confused generes. A punk band is not hardcore, as is a hardcore band is not punk. Iii9ix3 22:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

• The Wikipedia articles don't make this differentiation (according to emo (music), emo is a subgenre of hardcore punk, which is the same as hardcore). --HarryCane 17:09, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

• Thats because wikipedia is wrong. emo is short for emotional hardcore and harcore punk is a subgenre of punk, not hardcore just as metalcore(or hardcore metal) is a subgenre of metal, not hardcore. Besides, punkcore just sounds weird Iii9ix3 01:52, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• Panic! At The Disco are closer to Russian traditional polka music than they are to punk. I would classify them as power pop. I could see where they could be called emo as well, but the term "emo" is thrown around too often, and really, any song that has any sort of emotional connotation to it whatsoever could be called emo.

• Panic! are definitely NOT punk. Okay..bands like Sum 41 are punk. Do Panic! sound anything like them? The answer is no. One of the best descriptions would be dance-rock. Or maybe they just can't be classified as one genre.

The closet thing I could define them as is powerpop. They are not emo because they are definately not hardcore. and i cant see what on earth would make them punk.

• Hopefully this might clear up the "emo" debate. I found this on Blender: So much so that, for Ross, “emo” has become a dirty word. “It’s almost an insult,” he says. “We’ve totally exceeded emo, which is so stagnant. Not to be cocky, but those bands aren’t thinking outside the box.” Panic! are NOT punk...at all. They play rock music with a dance influence. So they are dance-rock.

• I am going to say they are emo, because the emo people I know listen to them. Whoops, original research :) --Asterism 07:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

What would you guys get outta this? "they have a futuristic sound on the fist half, then intermission, then they have an outdated sound"

Panic! At The Disco are NOT punk and are NOT pop. They are rock, with a dance influence.

Fans do not make a band emo. A lot of punks I know listen to NWA and Run DMC, but would that make them punk bands? I've also noticed that most people that call themselves emo have little understanding about emo.--67.65.248.142 14:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• Panic! At The Disco played DANCE music on guitars. They do not sound like punk one bit. They are a rock band, and there is dance influences. Punk are bands like Sum 41, Blink 182. They dont sound like that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.118.54.203 (talk • contribs) .

• Yet, they were strongly inspired by these bands (blink-182 in particular), therefore they are "pop punk influenced" --HarryCane 17:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

• I do not see what the fuss is about these emo bands... They are emo, ok? Just accept it! There's nothing wrong with being emo! The characteristics of an emo band is that the lead singer has a whiney voice and... well that's about it. Now, I'm a big fan of Panic!, but you people who keep arguing about how un-emo they are, are beginning to piss me off. It's just a bloody genre... gosh. --Scotteh 19:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I really wish I could figure out what made people who don't know anything about emo feel so inclined to talk about it. blink 182 and Sum 41 are not punk either, at least the way i view it. Pop punk at best. Emo is not characterized by a whiny vocalist, either. Bands like Gray Matter, Embrace, Rites of Spring, Husker Du and One Last Wish do not have whiny vocalists. I'm amazed how a rip-off underground clothing store and a a tv station that doesnt even play music anymore can just say "these bands are emo, dont worry about that whole, they dont play emo music thing" and everyone believe it without a second thought.--Terronez 20:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. --HarryCane 21:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Panic! At The Disco on Fuse...

This will, hopefully, end the endless "emo" battle. Panic! At The Disco were recently on the music channel Fuse; I can't recall which show it was, but the whole band was on and they were being interviewed. Ryan Ross, the guitarist, said this - and this is an EXACT quote:

"It's hard enough being an emo band with the word 'disco' in your band's name..."

I rest my case. They're emo.--RattleandHum

Just for the record, I'm not disagreeing with you (nor do I agree). But in a recent interview with Kerrang! magazine (Issue no 1100/March 25, 2006), Ryan Ross said "It's weird to be thrown into an emo punk scene when we're not that at all." Also, what bands claim to be must not automatically be a correct classification of their music's genre. If Avril Lavigne perceived her music as heavy metal and claimed in an interview that she plays heavy metal, that would not change the fact that she plays pop rock.

And maybe it's just me, but I also find it a little odd that your memory recalls an EXACT quote from a band member, but doesn't recall the title of your source. --HarryCane 16:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

My apologies, you're correct...what I meant to say is I couldn't exactly recall what show they were on at the moment, but it was either Daily Download or Steven's Untitled Rock Show. Probably Rock Show , but I'm not completely sure of the show. Either way, I love how you seem to think you're correct on everything that's ever edited on this damn site. I mean, really... --RattleandHum

I love how you changed "Probably Daily Download" to "Probably Rock Show" three weeks later. And I really don't know why you're getting all worked up now. Is this about me telling you a month ago not to add nonsense to the P!ATD article? --HarryCane 15:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow...I changed it to Rock Show after realizing it was, more than likely, that show they were. What a crime, thanks for pointing that one out. I'm not getting worked up, but if that makes you...like, feel better or something about yourself, you can think it. Sure. --RattleandHum

Stalker! He tracks your changes and keeps a databasis at home to remember who you are and where he knows you from! LOL. --Scotteh 19:53, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Please stop editing other users' comments. And see WP:STALK before calling me a stalker, will you? --HarryCane 21:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I remember the interview, and then he was saying how they were "emo" when they really weren't, and they were thrown into the emo scene. That was a comment made out of humor.

--65.12.134.148 22:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

But at the end of the day, emo or not, there shit. End of. haha :) ( Davehard 11:42, 16 July 2006 (UTC) )

....holy crap. you guys got in this huge fight with wether panic! at the disco was emo or not.

just for the record, a big part of being emo is denying being emo. no one that is emo says they are emo. Iii9ix3 22:24, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Emo?

Just wondering what other people thought but in my eyes Panic! aren't emo. There signed to an independent music label and therefore shouldn't they be classed as indie? Connor 82.195.110.34 19:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I would definitely agree on an emo classification, and pop punk would fit as well. The resemblance to current emo is very obvious, IMO. I won't change any thing though because I know most fans will disagree (btw I am a detractor anyhow). --Ryouga 00:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

whether or not panic are emo we still love them and there music! hey...is it just me or is that brandon i see in fallout boy vidio for a little less sixteen candles? that vidio is awsome and i love the both bands!

this band is by far no emo and you can tell there music dosn't make sense but i still love themso yea defintly not emo people have never even herd them but they lable them as emo well i don't see them sliting there wrists or any thing so yea cheek out my rant on adien they rok abnd so does panic at the disco + - *kalie frisky* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.140.30.145 (talk • contribs) 16:02, July 17, 2006

i am veary sorry i deleated some of other peoples stuff so please don't get mad i diddn't relize i did it SORRY :( .............thatks for understanding :):):):):) --kalie

genre is very subjective. removing emo reference since it can be endlessly debated but offers very little to the article. --bettse@onid.orst.edu

-Most fans of emo bands will deny that the band in question is emo. P!ATD is emo because they have emotion-centered lyrics into and pop-punk instrumentation. Can't we agree on that?

--Panic! is not emo in any way. They can have emotional lyrics, but that is not the only criteria to being considered emo. What most of you dont know, is that emo is short for Emotional Hardcore. Emo[tional Hardcore] begain in DC when hardcore bands(real hardcore, not crap like atreyu. Im talking like Minor Threat) began to slow down, become more guitar driven and have emotionally charged vocals. This continued untill most of the harsher lyrics were replaced by soft-sung, emotional lyrics. During this time the complete sound of the genre maintained itself through the relatively unchanged sound of the, mostly dual, guitar part(s)(guitars strummed in the same rhythm with an occasional catchy riff, and extensive octave chords). This was the last evolution of emo because after this, you lose all of the connection to hardcore(remember emo= Emotional Hardcore). Anything after this stage, a band may be heavily influenced by emo, but because of having no connection to hardcore, they are not emo. (www.fourfa.com)

Panic! pulls most of their influence from pop-punk bands such as Blink-182 (remember they started out as a blink cover band), and a little influence from post-hardcore(which may or may not be influenced by emo) bands. This gives them no connection at all to Hardcore, and thusly they cannot be emo. They don't even sound emo people. Listen to real emo, then panic! and you will see. Emo Bands - Still Life, Sunny Day Real Estate and early works from The Get Up Kids(Four Minute Mile and EPs) and Jimmy Eat World(Static Prevails and before). These are good examples of modern emo bands (1990's).

They are pop-punk. Like I stated before, a heavy influence from Blink-182 and other pop-punk bands is undeniable. Also, you could add the electronica tag, but I dont think that their use of drum machines and synthesizers is heavy enough. Panic! is definately guitar driven, not synth/drum machine driven. Also power pop would fit Panic! well too.

--brad. Iii9ix3 01:42, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. --HarryCane 17:55, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Electronica

Can someone explain to me how in the world this band is electronica? They clearly aren't.

It would be like calling Blink-182 a techno band.

Please read the electronica article. And P!ATD classifies as an emo/electronica mix for their use of synthesizers, drum machines and samplers, just like typical for electronica music. It's a wide genre of electronic-influenced music. --HarryCane 23:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. As long as the other genre's stay Dwnsjane2 02:32, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Many modern rock bands utilize electronic instruments, but that doesn't mean that they are electronica. Usage of the term "electronica" to describe the music of P!ATD implies that P!ATD exclusively uses electronic instruments to produce their music, or at least use electronic instruments predominantly over non-electronic instruments. But neither is the case.

I agree. By this definition, the Beatles would be rock/electronica, for their use of synthesizers. I think the 'electronica' label is being spread far too thin to have any useful meaning.

If you ask me, the term "emo/electronica" would be better applied to The Postal Service rather than P!ATD.

I don't know what P!ATD is but I can attest The Postal Service is not emo but indietronica. Emo is a culture/music genre which has grown out of hardcore punk. Though it may include electronic, synthesized instrumentation, its concepts/values are not those shared by indies. --Anthony5429 18:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

This band is NOT emo.

Anyone who has followed emo since its inception knows that classifying PATD as emo is wrong. They are pop-punk with electronica influences. They sound nothing like emo. If you want evidence visit http://www.fourfa.com, the most reliable reference on what emo really is.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bloodlvst (talk • contribs)

I think what you don't realize is that the term emo applies to a much wider variety of bands and musical styles than depicted on the website you mentioned. There are many contemporary emo bands, like Jimmy Eat World, Taking Back Sunday, Brand New, Dashboard Confessional, etc., which the website falls short of discussing sufficiently. Panic! at the Disco definitely draws musical and lyrical influence from several of these bands. By the by, there's nothing too punk (or pop punk) about the band, as e.g. they don't propagate anarchy or epitomize anti-media behavior. So if neither their music, nor their attitudes are exemplary punk, why label them punk? --HarryCane 19:58, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone who knows anything about emo knows that this band does NOT belong with the genre. They are not "contemporary rock" bands. They sound nothing like artists such as Chris de Burgh. Once again, emo is NOT about the lyrics. This is a common misconception. IN FACT, of ALL the bands you listed, Taking Back Sunday is the ONLY post-emo band there. Pop-Punk is not about that kind of behaviour. Bands such as Fall Out Boy, Senses Fail, blink- 182, etc, are pop-punk groups. The only two mainstream bands you that have ANY relation to emo are Taking Back Sunday and Thursday. Dashboard Confessional is pop-rock, indie rock if you count the first few releases. If you knew about emo you would once agian know that lyrical influence has little to no bearing on emo, and certainly does not change a bands music to emo. --Bloodlvst 20:22, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Lyrics has nothing to do with genre, whatsoever. If Enya decided to use Korn's lyrics in one of her songs, does that make her music heavy metal? (...Rhetoric) --Scotteh 19:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The problem is, you seem to have a very narrow conception of what qualifies as emo. Within the last years, emo has emerged into this all-embracing term that can be applied to almost any rock band in the current indie music scene, that has emotional vocal melodies and/or lyrics. Pop punk on the other hand is, like you said, applied to bands like Green Day, blink-182 or Fall Out Boy, who play a poppy (but still traditional in the sense of arrangements/instrumentation) version of punk rock. On top of that, it is often (not always) accompanied by somewhat political notions in the lyrics, whereas contemporary emo (not 1980s or 1990s emo) is, as the term indicates, more emotional or personal.

I must admit, I don't get the point you try to make with the contemporary rock/Chris de Burgh thing. As for your claim that Jimmy Eat World and Brand New are not emo (or emo-influenced), you might wanna see into that. Senses Fail are a screamo band in my book, which is a sub-genre of emo, but that's a different issue. --HarryCane 21:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes it has emerged as an all embracing TERM. Key word TERM. The GENRE is still as specific as it used to be. I've never heard Brand New, but I know they're some type of core. Jimmy Eat World is pop-rock, lyrically some emo, but emo is once again NOT about the lyrics. If you listen to real emo there is not supposed to be any specific bearing on the melody and lyrics. You cannot "all embrace" a genre. That's like me saying, "Atreyu has melodic guitars and blast beats, they are obviously metal". No, they are metalcore. And if you're another of the fools who thinsk Atryeu is screamo or has any relation to emo, you should not be a moderator on this site. Every time someone who is devoted to a genre edits it, people liek you can't accept that they are in 95% of the cases, right. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COMTEMPORARY EMO. That's like me saying that if a pop band sings about brutal murder they're a "contemporary death metal band". Please, learn to accept people who know the scene. Senses Fail is pop-punk by the way as well. Screaming with emotional lyrics doesn't magically change a genre, or the music. Pop-punk has nothing to do with the lyrics. Pop-punk is the general punk musical style, but watered down.--Bloodlvst 23:18, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Look, I'm the last one to start edit-warring over as trite a thing as whether Panic! at the Disco is emo or pop punk. Hell, I'm the one who first listed them under pop punk, until I figured emo might be more adequate. I only reverted your edits once when you seemed to have by mistake blanked the whole article. If you're saying emo doesn't exist anymore (which you are by saying "there is no such thing as contemporary emo"), I'm fine with that — even though music experts as AMG and Kerrang! magazine claim P!ATD is an emo band. I am, however, going to reinclude the Rock part in the infobox, as there's absolutely no need to exclude that.

Also, if you haven't heard Brand New, which I find a little odd as you say you "know the scene", you should definitely check them out. Emo or not, they are excellent. :) --HarryCane 13:52, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Alright and sorry about getting worked up. I'm just really passionate about genres being accurate, especially with emo. I'm not saying emo doesn't still exist, Taking Back Sunday si a good example, and Thursday isn't emo, but they come damn close. I'm trying to stop emo from becoming a misused term when discussing a bands genre. I cana gree with rock, as pop-punk is a form of rock of course. And just one word, you can never trust magazines like that. When you consider MTV calls bands like Disturbed nu-metal that's "so heavy", you know they have no idea what real metal is. I've heard Brand New a few times, but nothing enough to know them enough to try classifying them.

THANK YOU. panic at the disco is definetely not emo; thursday claims they're screamo but they sound nothing like saetia or orchid, so you should never go by what the band says.

yea i defintly agree that they are nowere near emo thanks to all the people that agree with me kalie

Emo sucks, Panic at the Disco does not. therefore Panic at the Disco is not emo. End of argument. 65.184.41.230 01:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

--i am glad to see that i am not the only one with a understanding what emo really is. The main problem here is that when bands, such as Jimmy Eat World, signed to a major label after releasing independent records. They changed their music to what the label required, but were still catagorized by what they were before their change. This is how the "emo" as MTV calls it came to be. Clearly MTV "emo" is not emo[tional Hardcore].

and to the above, yes i agree "emo" sucks but emo[tional hardcore] is amazing.

-brad Iii9ix3 01:42, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

So, can we now finally remove the emo label from the article, for good? --HarryCane 18:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

• yes, please. Also, we can remove the emo label from all bands similar to panic! as well. Iii9ix3 01:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The discussion to end all discussion

Look, we really have to sort out the genre thing, and stick with it. The infobox currently says "Rock, Pop punk, Emo, Electronica, Indie", and the lead says "pop punk/electronica/emo/rock", which is certainly too much. I think we should take "Rock" as a basis and pick two (or so) more specific genres by conscensus. Sign with ~~~ behind the genre(s) you think would fit best (NOTE: Sock puppets will be detected and declared void). Add any other genres in bold and linked to the respective article. --HarryCane 20:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Electronica –

Emo – Anthony5429 ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 23:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC)-000

Indie – Anthony5429

Indietronica –

Pop punk – Tmcw 17:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC), Iii9ix3 03:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Power pop – ~Zythe^{Talk to me!} 23:21, 8 August 2006 (UTC), Iii9ix3 03:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Comments:

Indie? This band is INDIE? These guys are on MTV and mainstream radio and you call them indie? That's like calling Green Day indie. 4.252.70.14 01:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not calling them that. But apparently other editors consider them indie, that's why I listed it here as well. --HarryCane 16:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok they are certainly NOT indie. I say Rock, Emo, and Dance Pop. They are definitely Emo and rock so I think atleast lets start there and if we can find another then we'll put it in.

Well let me get this straight. Panic is not a pop punk band their lyrics are nothing like real pop punk bands such as Green Day . I'd just call them Electronica/Dance/Emo.

http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/p/panic-at-the-disco/a-fever-you-cant-sweat-out.shtml http://www.nme.com/news/panic-at-the-disco/23319 http://www.popmatters.com/pm/music/reviews/panic_at_the_disco_a_fever_you_cant_sweat_out/ There are three sources calling saying that theyre emo. I think Pitchfork and NME alone is enough to settle this dispute. I am going to change it to Rock, Emo and Dance pop. If someone thinks of a better third genre please change it. PrettyMuchBryce 13:25, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

They're definitely not electronica nor indietronica. Like the discussion on electronica above states, P!ATD doesn't use electronic instruments predominantly over non-electronic instruments, so labelling the band as such is misleading and incorrect. I would simply label them as pop punk and leave it at that, since their music doesn't fit the criteria of traditional emo either.

This band is not pop-punk, Green Day is pop-punk. It's certaintly not Indie either, or at least not any longer, now that they've been touched by FOB.

note: P!atD was refer to as "pop-punkers" in the 1000th issue of Rolling Stone. The reference is on the back page in the write-up of the Billboard Top 40 Albums. For those interested... P!atD was at #17 from #25 the week before, The All-American Rejects was at #33, and Fall Out Boy was at #35. Also concerning this genre association The Fray was at #29, Kelly Clarkson was at #19, Johnny Cash was at #18. Also the various artists cd "Now 21" was at #2, behind Rascal Flatts at #1. - this was during April 26th, 2006. Word. - xsxex

Perhaps they are refering to "indie" in the Not major Label terms? Further, it is easy to get an Emo tag by being on same label ran by Fall Out Boy member, and touring with them. IMHO they have more Indie 'feel' as the album does not have heavy producer influence, dispite fact that they show up on Elite 8 on MTV. They don't seem to have personal emotional issues in lyrics as The Killers or weezer do, which does not lend them to fit my PERSONAL criteria for 'emo'. Hackajar 12:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I hear rock and emo in their music. I don't hear the indie sound but it appears they have indie classification because of their record lable. Electronica is hard to backup - I would venture to say almost all bands these days use some sort of electronica, be it synthesizers, vocoding, or what you will, for their music. Electronica bands are those which have the characteristic electronic sound throughout their music and I don't see that in P!ATD. For those reasons, I'm voting for rock, emo, and indie. Also, if you look at http://last.fm/music/PANIC!+at+the+Disco, you will see rock, indie, and emo are the most popular user tags for the band. --Anthony5429 11:42, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd say Pop-punk, easily. Why?

• (silly) Vocal melodies as the centerpiece of almost every song
• Highly recycled song structures, never lacking a chorus or hook. Varied drum patterns in the majority of songs always become simplistic during the hook.
• Power-chord/added-octave + simple one-note riffs as the basis for all guitar lines.
• Friggin annoying fans, I'll tell you that. Tmcw 17:32, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
• Amen to that. You're all losers.

Ummm...no. YOU'RE the loser for wasting your time with that pathetic argument. Pop-punk is NOT a bad thing, and if you think it is, then fuck off, because no-one wants to hear your invalid crap. I would call the band dance rock/pop punk and NOT emo. This band has nothing to do with "emo", past OR present, it's rubbish! Valkyrie Missile

Electronica?

How on earth can this be electronica, lots of artists (not only rock but numerous other genres too) use synthesizers and other electronic instruments, but can that be classified as electronica? No. So shortly, my idea is that the electronica part (which is already heavily disputed as I can see) should just be took away, it doesn't sound in any way like electronica. 81.69.188.48 11:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that all the PATD fans are confusing dance music with electronica. And they're also thinking that extensive use of electronic insturments means electronica. For example, the Flaming Lips are not electronica. -nick

Electronica is non-dancable electronic music. They are dance. Psychomelodic User:Psychomelodic/me 23:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Emo Debate (again)

Why do people keep nagging about the band not being emo??? There's nothing wrong with being emo! STFU and accept the genre that they are! --Scotteh 17:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Because it's not "emo", maybe? Look, if it's just another emo band, they'd be emotionally-hardcore, "wrist-slitting" freaks, who write songs about their life being terrible, horrible mutilation, and suicide, and whatnot. It disputes the neutrality of the article by the way, as it evidentally has a tone of negativity against this band, and the term "emo". Next time, before branding something, define what the thing is, and what the tag of description is. For now, I'll personally take no editing action on this Wiki, save for clean-up editing. Qwerty 07:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

:One another thing, why isn't My Chemical Romance considered emo again (according to the Wiki, which I have linked, it states that they are an Alternative Rock band? Aren't they a bunch of emos?)? Qwerty 07:00, 21 August 2006 (UTC) It was written that My Chemical Romance wasn't an emo band.

You are seriously missing the point. You have no idea what emo is about. Emo is about emotionally fueled music in this age of the emo movement. --DieHard2k5 17:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

A lot of music is emotionally fueled in this day and age, yet would never be considered emo? Is Ani Difranco emo? Plus, that raises the question: Is Panic! emotionally fueled? I mean, how are songs about Chuck Palahniuk novels and the music industry emotional? --Kahlfin 20:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Look, how YOU define EMO and what the general accepted idea are two different things. I personally don't think their emo, but the band has made note in interviews that THEY concider it emo. It may be speculated that was a move to gain more emo fans, not that they have much criteria for the Emo formula. They aren't depressed in each song, they don't use low cords or generic power cords, they don't incohertly screem into mic, they don't complain that they hate their mom/dad/girlfriend/boyfriend. The fist half of album has much electronic influence as remarked in their press junket and second half has a roaring 20's feel with some "generic" rock feel (a la Third Eye Blind. BUT with all this said, they mention the emo bit, therefore it is hard to dispute! Hackajar 21:28, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

NOT Emo!

This ISN'T Emo! Where are the emotional lyrics? Only the voice remembers on an emo band, but this electronic guitar pop isn't emo. It's Dancerock or something like this, but not Emo.

Ahh, another person under the impression that "emo" is short for "emotional". Seriously, if that were the case, then 99% of all music would be "emo".

Not electronica!

Roughly, electronic music deivides to 2 forms; electronica and EDM. As many people think, electronica is a synonym to electronic music\EDM. They are wrong! Electronica is stuff like IDM and trip hop, as EDM refer to the danceable electronic music (trance etc.)

For PATD I believe dance-punk will fit, or EDM, even just "electronic music" (however this option is not so informative), but not electronica! Psychomelodic User:Psychomelodic/me 01:17, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Not emo, electronica, alternative rock, or disco, but...

Pop punk. The lyrics are punk styled with an edge of electronica, but for the most part the sound of two guitars, bass, and drums, is purely pop punk.