Talk:Panic attack/Archive 2

This article and the stub on "Panic Disorders"

A lot of this article concerns panic disorder (PD), rather than panic attacks per se. I propose moving large chunks of this article to the other one, or at least copying it (so it will appear in both places). I'll wait a week or so before doing that, to see if anyone objects (or beats me to it). Only problem I see: I have no idea why the "Panic Disorders" page has the pluralized title (isn't there just one PD?) -- I may have to change that as well. RobertAustin 12:21, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

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Hi! i am new to this whole wiki thing, but have used it for a very long time.

Yesterday, a friend of mine had a sudden panic attack and had trouble breathing. As soon as 911 was called, I headed straight to wikipedie to look up what to do in the situation. So thanks for the knowledge wikipedia!

Though, as a note, it would have been nice to have a "Immidiate Treatement" section for situations like that....

DudeBri 19:11, 6 November 2006 (UTC)DudeBri

Welcome to WP, DudeBri.

Proper immediate treatment for any condition you are not intimately familiar with is to call 911 and dealing with any first aid issues (airway, breating, circulation). In case of psychiatric conditions, act calmly and proceed with care; try to calm them down, but don't put yourself at risk, and don't put pressure on them as it will most likely resolve on it's own (or at least not become threatening until the ambulance/whatnot arrives). This pretty much goes for bad trips too. Either way, the nice people handling the 911 call will usually be able to give you directions as to what you should do.

Wikipedia is not a substitute for professional expertise, and taking any kind of "immediate response" information from WP borders on irresponsible behaviour. It would still probably be nice to have such a section, though, as people invariably will do just so. sigh.

Zuiram 04:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Increased risk of heart disease

I have deleted the sentence about there being no physical harm in panic attacks. It is no longer clear that this is the case. It has been found that those with panic disorder have almost 2x the risk of heart disease than those without PD. See, e.g., [Panic Disorder Appears To Increase Risk Of Coronary Heart Disease http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/09/050924105015.htm]. Aleta 23:30, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I find this hardly surprising as people who have "stressful lifestyles" have a well documented and similarly increased risk of heart disease. My guess is frequency and intensity of the attacks are major contributing factors to those findings.

Rational panic attacks

I´ve been looking for an article which described a sensation I had some times in my life. It happens once or twice every year and it has been going on at least since I´m 12. It´s horrible and it looks to me panic attack it is, but not the way it is in the article. Indeed, the article says it´s an irrational, out of context feeling, out of the blue. Someone, however, can experience the same sensations of a panic attack in a real fight-or-flight situation, I mean a situation in which it would not be "wrong" or "weird" or "out of context" to feel such sensations. I know what I have felt cannot be described, and I don´t believe men can experience anything worse than that. But it didn´t happen out of the blue, as I walked on the street some day. It only happens once I start to think a series of thoughts which eventually lead to the perception (the realization) that I am going to die some day. When that perception is clear (only when it is very clear: I realize I´m going to die) the feeling which arises makes me forget about any social rule, and wherever I am I just run or get up if I´m sitting and I get out of the room where I am quickly and I just want to end that! I may be still sitting and just say something out loud. It doesn´t last minutes, as I read a panic attack does. It can only last a few seconds, I believe. My heart beat goes up, I become desperate and I don´t see how anyone could take that for more than a few seconds. Does Wikipedia have an article on that? Should it have? Do other people feel the same thing that I feel? Does anyone know the name of that? (If it is important at all: reading things about the Universe, texts dealing with the reduction of people to atoms or about life after death can cause a chain of thoughts which eventually lea d to this experience, so I avoid this kind of reading. Isaac Asimov and Stephen Hawking can actually cause that, so I don´t read those anymore)—Preceding unsigned comment added by A.Z. (talk • contribs)

Rational, as used in the context of psychology and psychiatry seems (to me) to indicate an answer of yes to the question "Is it an appropriate or expected response for just about anyone to experience these symptoms, given the stimuli?" In your case, the answer is no. realizing ones own mortality for the first time could very well be expected to elicit this response. The second, third, fourth, and so on, are generally expected to elicit a sobering or somber response from the person, not full fledged panic. The question you seem to answering when calling your panic attack rational is: "Were a perfectly logical, and predictable set of thoughts the underlying trigger for my response?" The answer to that question is "yes". The response itself is an exaggerated response compared to what would normally be expected. (i.e. vigorously tying up loose ends, completing projects, making sure loved ones know how much they're appreciated) Wanting to run and feeling out of control is not an expected response from that train of thoughts. Although from what you described you've got a remarkably short lived set of attacks. I envy you for the duration, though not for what you must avoid to keep from having the attacks. Asimov is a fun read. :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by JDaniels (talk • contribs)

Well, actually it's the same thing; only the trigger is different. Many people feel slightly like that when they read too much about those subjects (or others), but it's usually short and not as intense as you describe it. In your case, the response from the nervous system is exaggerated, and it starts a chain reaction. The fact that it doesn't last much doesn't mean it's not a panic attack; just that it isn't a "classic" one. Maybe it's just the way your nervous system works, or perhaps the response is made higher because of psychological factors. If it's becoming a problem for you, perhaps you should ask a psychologist. Otherwise, you could either keep on avoiding studying too much about that, or try to find some phillosophy to help you feel better about the subject. Still, I can assure you that you're not the only one who feels like that sometimes; in fact, most people know the feeling, even if it's less intense. user:guruclef

Thank you. A.Z. 02:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

removed link

I removed the last link to the Royal Ottowa Mental Health Care Centre. The link was broken and I couldn't find any similar pages on the site. Xzqx 16:49, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

removed section

I removed the section on the Anxiety and Phobia Workbook because it was just an advertisement for the book. I added a link to the book's page on Amazon instead, in this page's Links section. 208.120.100.231JLB July 16, 2007

Mnemonic

I think the mnemonic is hard to remember :) user:guruclef

I think the mnemonic is a bit corny and superfluous :) Tolchocker 06:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Symptoms

"When the sufferer experiences more than four bodily symptoms at once it is said that they have had a full-blown panic attack, while experiencing four or less symptoms constitutes a limited symptom attack."

I have at least 16 of the symptoms on the main page (don't know about physical symptoms as i'm usually too busy dying at the time). Do I have a disorder or just an intense attack?

It appears the NIMH has a discussion on the difference between "Panic Attacks" and " Panic Disorders" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.245.254 (talk) 02:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Wrong diagnosis of panic disorder

I think that it would be aproapriate to add that some people that have diagnosed with panic disorder have died of real physical illnesses due to mis-diagnosis. I would like to explain the clip-lock nature of such a mis-dianostic since a person suffering from a misdiagnosis of anxiety neurosis cannot undo thier diagnostic, due to such a claim being percieved as being an illusion to the patient. I would like to know if anyone has any information on this?—Preceding unsigned comment added by North Wolf Inuit (talk • contribs)

There are several issues with this point.

• First, assuming you're in a medical system like the USA has, a person can always get a second opinion, third opinion...etc. It's not always easy, but it's possible. That's how you "undo" a diagnosis. So further context regarding why it is a "panic attack" or "anxiety" diagnosis is irrefutable or immutable would definitely be useful. (i.e. is this just in one country? Is it the social stigma that's of concern?)
• Second, anxiety as an illness is not perceived as "an illusion to the patient" This is from first hand experience. I'm a patient with G.A.D. and no doctor has ever treated me as if I'm incapable of understanding my own plight. The opposite is the truth. Doctors have always been forthcoming, honest and respectful with me.
• Third, there seems to be a suggestion that mental illness is not a physical illness, possibly not even real. Nothing could be further from the truth. It just so happens that the brain, with all its influences on physical function and behavior, is where the symptoms manifest. This of course presents a whole host of very complicated problems.
• Fourth, there seems to be little connection between the misdiagnoses and the topic of the article. Answering the following questions will greatly improve the understandability of the relevance of a misdiagnosis: Were these misdiagnosed people really having a heart attack? Was it something else? What was common between the actual illness and panic attacks? Where can a person find more information about the other illness? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JDaniels (talk • contribs)

You would need a reference. However, since medical science has not ruled out that panic attacks are/panic disorder is a "real physical illness" in and of itself, I think it very unlikely that you will find a reference from a reputable source that will unequivocally state your position. Lizbetann 17:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Waxing and Waning

Anyone know why "waning" redirects to "Lunar Phase"? I'm sure many other people have no idea what waning even means.

What "waning" means per se would be a dictionary entry. It redirects to Lunar Phase because the moon's waning is the most prominent of documented waning phenomena. "Waxing and waning" is used here as it's used most other places — abstractly. The moon seems to be the only case where waxing and waning is the official terminology for a phenomena, and so the only place where there's any encyclopedic content for the entry.

But for anyone who doesn't know what waning means, "waxing" is probably just as mysterious. A search for "waxing" directs to a hair-removal article with a disambig link at the top. For "waning," you can direct it to a disambiguation page which includes the abstract definition and the moon cycle, or place a disambig link at the top of the Lunar Phase entry, or just disconnect the link from the panic attack page to the lunar page because it's not pertinent to panic attacks. LeSaint 22:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

tone and style

This article sounds vehement, or large portions do at least, as if it was written by a panic-attack sufferer on a mission.

The entire sentences in bold are unsophisticated and unnecessary. "First time panic attacks are usually one of the worst experiences of a person's life" and so on sounds like hyperbole, which undermines the article's authority. Whether it's exaggeration or not, the whole thing would benefit from some more subdued writing (and a bunch of research sourcing!)

Thanks to anyone who's up to working on it. LeSaint 20:44, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I began a complete re-write. Comments welcome. --DashaKat 18:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

There are several public domain sources from NIH. I would cite heavily to prevent materials from morphing beyond recognition later. If you can do something about the page merge issue, that would be great too. MegaHasher 12:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Panic attack/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Why is there a section on agoraphobia in the middle of the article? It does not seem to belong. 70.132.5.91 (talk) 17:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 21:51, 3 May 2016 (UTC)