Talk:Parental rights movement/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Bobby Cohn (talk · contribs) 14:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: FishLoveHam (talk · contribs) 18:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

I'll be reviewing this! FishLoveHam (talk) 18:23, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Excellent, can't wait for your review! Bobby Cohn (talk) 18:38, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• A lot of single-sentence paragraphs. Consider combining some to make the lead look a bit cleaner. My recommendations: Add "Additionally, the parental rights movement..." into the second paragraph and the last two can be merged and reworded into one sentence.

   Done, though alternatively. Worth a recheck as I went what I thought went together, which were generals aims/goals, and then start/spread/reaction. Open to further remarks. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• "preventing" → "to prevent".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• Add a comma after "without disclosing to".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• Capitalise "governor".

   Done, also done throughout the article, with respect to other Governors as well, and in image caption. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• After "LGBT activists", ref 7 is shown before ref 4.

   Reordered. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:04, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• "indoctrination" → "the indoctrination".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:04, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• The word "abusive" doesn't feel right given the article's content, maybe "homophobic" or "unaccepting".

   Done: "unaccepting". Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

• I'll take a closer look at this when we examine sources, but this lead possibly violates WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY as refs 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 are all used once. 5 and 6 are passable, but no mention of the content discussed in 8, 9, and 10 in the body of the article is a problem as it is a key concern of this bill.

   Done I've expanded on citations in 9 and 10 in "§ Impact on LGBT youth" and included reference 8 amount the second paragraph there, though it may begin to look like cite overkill, they could all be expanded upon. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Definition

• "The phrase "parental rights" ... affiliations" This doesn't add to the definition and seems a little biased, it can be cut.

  I've cut it.  Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:35, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

• "The modern ... similar movement in the 1990s" What movement? This could use a little more explanation. Also this sentence can be merged into the rest of the previous paragraph.

   Done. Expanded on Caruso's thoughts, joined with previous paragraph. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:35, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

• I think to warrant its own subheading, the media responses section could be expanded a bit. There are many interpretations of this movement and this section could use more viewpoints.

United States

• LaToya Baldwin Clark is a red link.

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "at least the 1990s" reword.

   Done. "Groups have suggested that similar ideas by parental rights advocates, which have worked to restrict education on sex or sexuality, date back to the 1990s. " Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:35, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

• "...led to many conservative Christian parents" remove "to".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "In 2022, the US state of Florida ... government reach into schools" Merge into one paragraph, also add citations after sentences using quotes.

   Done Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:41, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

• Capitalise "senator".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• Capitalise "governor".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• In the lead, "Don't Say Gay" is italicised and here it is quoted.

   Done. Italicized throughout. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Canada

• "At the time" remove and attribute the quote "parental rights clause".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:43, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

• "home schooling" → "homeschooling".

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "introduced policy" → "introduced a policy"

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "by Wab Kinew's New Democratic Party." No citation after the paragraph ends.

   Added citation. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "— and" remove the space.

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "schools should leave LGBT issues to parents" reword, reads a little informally.

Europe

• Remove red links.

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "as Irish" → "as the Irish"

   Done. Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:32, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Impact on LGBT children

• This section's title would be more appropriate if named "Impact on LGBT youth", as teenagers are more likely to be impacted by this bill.

   Done, I really like this suggestion! Bobby Cohn (talk) 00:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

• "A result of parental rights-focused policies is that forcibly outing individuals can exacerbate issues such as depression, anxiety, and self-esteem problems, potentially leading to long-term emotional scars and negatively impacting their overall quality of life." feels repetitive as the previous sentence talked about similar topics. Merge the sentences if possible.

   Done

@Bobby Cohn: These are my initial comments, ping me when you've addressed them. FishLoveHam (talk) 20:49, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @FishLoveHam, I've completed the above list. I'll note that I see the recommendations and concerns by @It is a wonderful world (courtesy ping, I'm not ignoring these). I expect they may be brought up as well in the next part of your review, I'm just not sure how to go about addressing them right now in the process of your GAN review, this is only my second nom. Thanks, Bobby Cohn (talk) 23:48, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Just work through the neutrality concerns and then ping me and we'll continue. FishLoveHam (talk) 09:05, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Neutrality

I am concerned about the neutrality of this article. I am not an expert on politics, but this article seems to be biased to criticizing the movement. It is a wonderful world (talk) 00:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

The parental rights movement is a socially conservative political movement aimed at restricting schools' ability to teach or practice certain viewpoints on gender, sexuality and race without parental consent: This definition is vague ("certain viewpoints") and emphasises the restrictions on schools rather than the empowerment of parents.

One of the aims of the movement is to schools from using the preferred pronouns or chosen names of transgender and non-binary youth without disclosing to, or gaining permission from parents: Why is this aim so much more important than the others that it needs to be specifically mentioned at the start of the second paragraph?

More broadly, it aims to prevent the teaching of LGBT issues in public schools without parents' agreement: This is just a repeat of the second half of the introductory sentence

colloquially known as the Don't Say Gay law, by Governor Ron DeSantis: Too much detail for the lead.

Proponents of the movement have claimed that they aim to prevent the indoctrination of children by LGBT activists: "have claimed" is not neutral. MOS:CLAIM

The definition section lacks broad coverage. All we have is Jen Gilbert's definition which focuses on the contemporary controversial political ideas associated with the movement. This is a very narrow definition as it excludes people who don't care about the political issues and just want more legal control over their children's teaching. The neutrality is also debatable since "under the auspices" has negative connotations.

Perhaps a better approach would be to provide a neutral broad definition, focusing on the legal aspects, and then talk about the political issues that the movement is associated with.

The sourcing is massively weighted towards news articles. Is there not significant coverage of this topic in peer reviewed literature? It is a wonderful world (talk) 00:28, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Agree with most of the above. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 08:51, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bobby Cohn: It's nearly been two weeks now and this review has made little progress, are you still planning to work on it? FishLoveHam (talk) 06:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

@FishLoveHam, unfortunately something has come up and I have not been able to dedicate the requisite time to properly address the concerns raised above. I've probably been lying to myself thinking "I'll get back on the horse tomorrow" each day but I understand that's not fair to yourself and the proper timeline of this process. Courtesy ping @It is a wonderful world and @Rollinginhisgrave, I don't want you to think I'm skirting your concerns, and I do intend on addressing these issues. I apologize for the delay and taking up this time in your schedule. Regrettably, I think it would be best if I requested this GAN withdrawn at this time, I understand that will result in a failure, but I think that's best given my current situation. Bobby Cohn (talk) 12:52, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for not indefinitely putting it off until FishLoveHam would be forced to fail it. When you get around to addressing these issues in the future, can you ping me? It is a wonderful world (talk) 12:58, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

I am really sorry if it feels like I've been pressuring you in any way, please know that wasn't my intention at all. But given your recent comments I think it's going to have to be a fail for now. Good luck on addressing these concerns in the future. FishLoveHam (talk) 14:13, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.