Talk:Participatory organization

Sources

Hi @SailingInABathTub, what are these sources you are alluding to have found? My PROD statement said that the scope of the article is unclear, i.e., what are you finding as a "participatory organization"? czar 13:47, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

I've added a couple of sources, and removed the promotional content that was tacked on at the end. The description section still needs attention. SailingInABathTub (talk) 14:39, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

@SailingInABathTub, I'm still missing how this is anything more than a turn of phrase, like there are papers that discuss "democratic organizations" but that doesn't mean it is a distinct type of organization if it doesn't have literature that distinguishes it from other groups. For example, your sources appear to discuss a synonym for voluntary association, not a distinct type of organization. czar 05:01, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

I disagree that it is a turn of phrase, the sources all define exactly what a participatory organization is. B.Guy Peters (2014) states that a voluntary organization is a type of participatory organization, but that a participatory organization can also be a workplace organization with employees. SailingInABathTub (talk) 11:48, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Guy Peters mentions "participatory organization" once in the whole book. It's the definition of a passing mention. He isn't describing a type of organization about which we would write an entire encyclopedia article. He is describing the idea that people would participate in an organization. That's why I called it a turn of phrase. I'm open to seeing what sources you find that discuss/analyze the concept in depth but I have not found such sources. Would it be better to send this to AfD or do you have a reasonable alternative to deletion? czar 00:25, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

It seems that searching for the british english spelling throws up more sources. I've added some to the article. SailingInABathTub (talk) 22:47, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Where do these sources discuss a singular/unified topic of a "participatory organiz/sation"? They each seem to define it differently for their own purposes. I'm trying to determine the extent to which we have enough content to write a dedicated article on the subject versus redirecting it to a section of Organizational structure. If there is no unified concept to cover, then it wouldn't make sense to redirect it even there. czar 19:46, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

In what way do you believe that the definitions given by the sources diverge? SailingInABathTub (talk) 09:34, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

...there is no common definition in these sources, if it's defined at all. It mostly not used as a term of art and instead is basically an organization in which people participate in an aspect of something, which is so vague as to be meaningless. There are two citations on the lede's opening and neither of which verify the text (that a "participatory organization" is categorically "an organization ... built based on public participation rather than their contract obligations"):

In source #1, as I already said, Guy Peters mentions "participatory organization" once in the entire book. I'm not going to copy the context but suffice it to say it's a neologism that is undefined. At best it's compared to a voluntary organization, for which we already have an organization and would redirect, but even then I don't think this term is used often in that way enough to warrant that.

In source #2, it says that one style of corporation is "more participatory" than another. It makes no categorical claim about a type of org or concept called a "participatory organization".

Honestly all that I'm seeing are some searches in which the words "organiz/sation" and "participatory" appeared together. I don't know what point you're intending to make by arguing that these are linked in any meaningful way. czar 14:38, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Conference papers

[1] The entire history of WP:RSP shows that conference papers are considered primary sources and less reliable than published, secondary sources by the nature that they have not been reviewed by similar rigor. czar 14:41, 19 July 2022 (UTC)