Talk:Particular judgment

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Today I almost wrote this lead paragraph over the current one.

In Christian eschatology, particular judgment is the doctrine that immediately after death the eternal destiny of each separated soul is decided by the just judgment of God. In Eastern Orthodox dictrine, the judged soul awaits the Resurrection either in blissful anticipation or dread. In Catholicism, the soul goes immediately to Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and then Heaven, or possibly Limbo. In Protestantism, the soul goes to Heaven or Hell. Particular judgment is the common belief of most Christians, as opposed to the belief that none are judged before the General Judgment, and that the soul is unconscious or that there is no separate spiritual soul that survives death.

I'm trying to incorporate the Eastern Orthodox view into the page so it can be about Christian doctrine instead of about Western Christian doctrine. Here's the tough nut. Is "particular judgment" the belief that one is judged immediately after death, or that one goes to hell/heaven/purgatory immediately after death? The Eastern Orthodox have judgment immediately after death, but you don't go to hell or wherever until the resurrection. Is that particular judgment? Is there a name for the "go to hell now" doctrine or for the "waiting" doctrine? Jonathan Tweet 15:10, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Father Peter could help you better than I with the academics, but here goes...

I like your rewrite above, Jonathan, but I'm uneasy with "judged soul" and with linking "awaits" to "soul-sleep." The East has never demarcated boundaries as rigidly as the West. An Orthodox Christian expects to be with all other souls in Sheol after the body dies. It's not Limbo or Purgatory or Heaven or Hell. It is the place all spirits exist in the presence of God. Likewise, the experience or "foretaste" of what is called an immediate judgment is more of a realization that our earthly struggle for or against God is concluded. Will the fiery breath of God warm and comfort us, or will it feel as if it burns? Even the great gulf between Lazarus and the rich man is not a physical impediment, but one self-engendered by the hardening of the heart. Think of being compelled to attend an eternal party for someone you either loved or despised... and finding out He really is THAT cool.

I don't think I can make the transition from lame, homespun metaphors to the Great Judgment, so I'll leave you with a few essays:

http://aggreen.net/beliefs/heaven_hell.html http://www.frederica.com/writings/why-we-need-hell.html http://www.philthompson.net/pages/library/riveroffire.html

We'll address praying for the dead another time.

Nice to finally bump into someone I know, Jonathan. The Void's a pretty big place.

Peace.

68.77.94.155 04:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC) Mayor Shinn, RIHS - Class of '82

01:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)01:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)01:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)01:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)01:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)01:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)01:42, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Trishipedia (talk) 00:49, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

New Comment ...

Christian Protestants have a variety of beliefs on the subject of eschatology. I am adding some of them here....

1) Many believe you stay dead until Christ returns to judge the living and the dead.

"No man hath ascended up to heaven" (John 3:13). "David is not ascended into the heavens" (Acts 2:34). "The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's, but the earth hath he given to the children of men" (Psa. 115:16). "The spirit (at death) shall return to God who gave it" (Eccl. 12:7).

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them" (Heb. 11:13). When the seventh angel sounds, "Thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead that they should be judged, and thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets" (Rev. 11:15-18).

"The dead know not anything ... Their love, their hatred, and their envy is now perished" (Eccl. 9:5). "In death there is no remembrance of thee; in the grave, who shall give thee thanks?" (Psa. 6:5). "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence" (Psa. 115:17). "The grave cannot praise thee: death cannot celebrate thee" (Isa. 38:18).

Jesus says the hour is coming when those that are in the graves "shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation" (John 5:29; Dan. 12:2).

2) Some Christians actually would say they don't know, because so many now believe in reincarnation, etc. but still don't want to say they are Hindu. At the very least many would say you just disappear. They call it the "Christ Consciousness" as did Edgar Cayce, Eastern religions and New Agers.

3) Many seem to believe that you immediately go straight into heaven or hell the very second you die. there are those stories of people going in and out of hell as they are resusitated by paramedics, apparently with no trip to God and judgment. Many claim to have returned and tell their stories and have written bestsellers.

4) Some believe everybody, including animals float to heaven but there is no judgement because there is no hell. Book, "Embraced by the Light" where author claims to have died and gone to heaven.

5) Many believe that on the day you die you go to heaven where you are judged and then are sent to heaven or hell. (the "St Peter at the Gate" jokes perpetuate this ideology)

It is such an interesting topic, I would like for us to generate interest and be inclusive rather than annoy readers by neglecting to mention thier belief system.

POV

This article seems to be pretty POV in statements about how the doctrine of Particular Judgment isn't supported by the Bible. It should lay out what the belief is, not set out to disprove it. A large part of this article seems to contrast Particular with General Judgment. I tagged the article as POV. Kristamaranatha (talk) 21:03, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Trishipedia (talk) 01:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC) See my comment above where I added several Christian beliefs.

Trishipedia (talk) 01:41, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Roman Catholic Picture

Dear editors,

It somewhat disturbed me that the image used to describe Roman Catholic understanding of the topic discussed involved the notion of Limbo. Limbo was never officially adopted into Church dogma, and was recently declared a void theory by an authoritative theological council. Thank you for your concern,

Sincerely, 76.223.8.197 (talk) 05:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I added that fact. Of course, the picture remains unchanged and anyways the theory of limbo must be covered to, but maybe the picture caption should explain that as well. Str1977 ^(talk) 00:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 22:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)