Talk:Particulates

What is meant by the cryptic sentence fragment, "Sea salt does not absorb." ?

This says nothing intelligible. The thought should be completed by supplying the object -- what it is that sea salt does not absorb. Otherwise, the fragment should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ocdnctx (talk • contribs) 20:40, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I suspect it means light - the start of the paragraph mentions that dust is light absorbing. I will complete the sentance, but leave the reference needed. I think that the discussion of optical properties is probably better moved to the section on direct radiative effect which mentions Single scattering albedo. --NHSavage (talk) 15:12, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Aerosol/particulates

It has been a while since I tried to do anything on this article. I am still not happy with the aerosol/particulate distinction. Given the industrial and medical importance of aerosols it seems odd that that article only refers to atmospheric aerosols. This article also mostly covers atmospheric particulates with some brief mention of others in the lead only. I would like to propose the following changes:

1. Remove most of the information on atmospheric particulates from the aerosol article apart from a brief section with a link to this page as the Main section.
2. Extend the aerosol article to mention the wide technological uses of aerosols
3. Rename this article 'Atmospheric particulate matter' or if you insist 'Atmospheric particulates'.

--NHSavage (talk) 15:41, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Some ideas for sections in the new aerosol page

1. definition of an aerosol and also term like monodisperse, particle size distribution, number density etc
2. atmospheric aerosols - with a short explanation of the rather subtle (in my opinion) distinction between aerosol and particulate matter and also the difference the usage of different communities - climate scientists almost always use aerosol while epidemiologists use
3. aerosol generation e.g. spray cans etc
4. aerosol applications - medical, industrial, consumer (spray cans)

Thoughts welcome. --NHSavage (talk) 06:32, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I see that the last time this was proposed it failed because we did not know what the page should be redirected to. I think that the answer to this is that it doesn't need to be redirect but a disamabiguation page which consists of the first paragraph of the lead and then links to this article. and Total suspended solids for the water part.--NHSavage (talk) 06:53, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

Draft of how this page will look after the move is on a subpage at Particulates/draft. Comments and edits welcome. The biggest challenge will be sorting out the redirects etc and even more the foreign language wikipedias - some will need to go to one page and some to the other.--NHSavage (talk) 05:31, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

I propose to make this change on Saturday unless there is any other feedback in accordance with WP:BB.--NHSavage (talk) 19:39, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

I am kind of new to the business of editing wikipedia pages. So I do not know the procedure. But I object to the title of the page "Particulates" and generally to the use of the word "particulate" as a noun. It is an adjective, eg "particulate matter". I suggest change the page title to "Atmospheric aerosols". There might be another page entitled "Aerosols", as there are many other types of aerosols (industrial, medical) than atmospheric as indicated in comments by NHSavage below, which I generally agree with. Soccer59 (talk) 05:18, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

I agree. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:53, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

If the proposal is to rename this article, the procedure is set forth at WP:RM. bd2412 T 13:17, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Hello SmokeyJoe; as I said above I am new to this process; I briefly looked at your talk page and see you seem to be up there with the experts. I also briefly looked at WP:RM but I am reluctant to do a unilateral move without some concurrence of other folks interested in this subject. But how to initiate a discussion? Soccer59 (talk) 19:01, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Skopje

I removed the following text from the section on regulation. The link it gives no longer works and if it was just daily monitoring data, it would not be useful as a reference of past concentrations. It also does not include any units. Daily average of 500 means nothing. (It's probably μg/m³ but I don't know). If someone can find a sourced reference for this, it might go in the affected areas part (which also needs a lot of work)

During November and December 2011, the values for particulate matter concentrations in Skopje, Macedonia have been record high, with daily average of 500. The values are taken from a page supported by the city authorities.

--NHSavage (talk) 08:09, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed re-organisation

I am not happy with the current structure of this article and I would like to suggest the following sections:

First a lead which summarises all the content of the article and is not just a definition (although it needs to include a definition). Then:

1. Definition (what is a particulate and how is it related to an aerosol, PM10, respirable fraction etc)
2. Sources (natural and anthropogenic, including information on size and composition)
   1. Primary sources
   2. Secondary sources
3. Atmospheric sinks (not including control technologies)
4. Atmospheric concentrations (using material from Affected areas as a starting point)
5. Impacts on human health
6. Impacts on Ecosystems
7. Climate impacts
8. Regulation
9. Control technologies

Thoughts anyone?--NHSavage (talk) 10:34, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Dubious table

Most Polluted World Cities by PM
Particulate matter, μg/m3 (2004 and 2011)	City
508	Skopje, Macedonia
279	Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
169	Cairo, Egypt
150	Delhi, India
128	Kolkata, India (Calcutta)
125	Tianjin, China
123	Chongqing, China
109	Kanpur, India
109	Lucknow, India
104	Jakarta, Indonesia
101	Shenyang, China

I have removed this table from the article for 2 reasons.

1. Some of the entries in are not supported by the reference Skopje, Macedonia and Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia
2. I don't think that the caption is actually correct. The source states: The data on concentrations of particulate matter are estimates, for selected cities, of average annual concentrations in residential areas away from air pollution “hotspots,”. This does not support them being used to create a list of "Most polluted cities by PM".
3. The average is for a single year - even with fixed emissions, variations in weather can cause changes from year to year

--NHSavage (talk) 11:29, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Fairbanks designated non attainment for PM2.5

EPA designated Fairbanks, Alaska as a non-attainment area for PM2.5. It would be neat to see the map updated to reflect this. Currently only the PM10 map includes Alaska, with Eagle River shaded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdegan (talk • contribs) 01:10, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

PM(2.5-10) and PM(2.5) exposure typical in the United States significantly associated with worse cognitive decline in older women.

Weuve J, Puett RC, Schwartz J, Yanosky JD, Laden F, Grodstein F.

Exposure to particulate air pollution and cognitive decline in older women.

Arch Intern Med. 2012 Feb 13;172(3):219-27. doi: 10.1001/archinternmed.2011.683.

An analysis of The Nurses' Health Study Cognitive Cohort, this study concluded:

Long-term exposure to PM(2.5-10) and PM(2.5) at levels typically experienced by many individuals in the United States is associated with significantly worse cognitive decline in older women.

FULL FREE TEXT:

PMC 3622279

NIHMSID: NIHMS451584

PMID 22332151

Airborne-particulate-size-chart

No Units on a chart? Are you kidding? This is something students learn in middle school. Put units on charts and graphs! JabberWok (talk) 03:26, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Agreed--this is important. Who added the chart? Someone needs to add units forthwith. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesCAustin (talk • contribs) 19:14, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

PM2.5

Boys and girls - this is not a refereed journal, it's an encyclopedia. When I look up PM2.5, I expect to find out what the hell that means, not get into a discussion about what constitutes a "particle". PM is Particulate Matter? 2.5 is ... ? Inches? km? Is it even a size? Maybe it's how the particle tastes - 2.5 is raspberry and 10 is chocolate? --plaws (talk) 18:25, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

The article says micrometers. If you think the description can be improved, feel free to do it. — HHHIPPO 14:26, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

It is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerosol#cite_ref-9 AyubuZimbale (talk) 13:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus, much as it pains me to say it. I left this open for a fair while because it's clear that the current title is sub-par, but when deciding what to move it to I think both sides have made equally reasonable arguments and to split them would amount to a supervote. No prejudice against a new RM in the near-ish future because everyone seems to agree the current title is less than ideal. Jenks24 (talk) 06:57, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

---

Particulates → Atmospheric particulate matter – The article, as written, is about atmospheric particulate matter. Particulates should be a disambiguation page similar to Particulate (disambiguation), as atmospheric particulate matter is not the primary topic of "Particulates", but rather one type of particulate matter. There is some related discussion at Talk:Particulate (disambiguation). Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 07:51, 25 August 2014 (UTC) --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 05:59, 13 August 2014 (UTC) G. C. Hood (talk) 17:04, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

• Strong support WP:CRITERIA, this fails to be specific enough to identify the topic. Particulate matter, Particulates and Particulate should redirect to Particle. Indeed, particulates in water / drinking water / sewage is just as likely if not more likely than atmospheric particulates. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I disagree about the redirects. As Particle explains, a particulate is something that is composed of particles. Once the current content of Particulates is moved to Atmospheric particulate matter, Particulates and Particulate should redirect to Particulate (disambiguation). Particulate matter should redirect to Atmospheric particulate matter per WP:PRIMARYUSAGE, with a hatnote leading users to Particulate (disambiguation). G. C. Hood (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

• Support, with no redirects as G. C. Hood indicates. Also pinging @BD2412: because he started a related RM back in 2012. Titoxd^{(?!? - cool stuff)} 20:11, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
• Support the rename, move Particulate (disambiguation) to Particulate, and anything that is not obviously Atmospheric particulate matter should go there 24.131.80.54 (talk) 21:28, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
• Support with redirects as suggest by G.C. Hood.--NHSavage (talk) 17:45, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
• Please hang on until I get back from Wikimania. I'll be available on the 12th. The discussion can be relisted to remain open until then. Cheers! bd2412 T 12:27, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
• Support per nom. "Particulate" fails to reflect the scope of this article, and is ambiguous with particle. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:27, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
• I am concerned that we are not fully thinking through and plotting out the best solution here. Our goal is to help readers find the article that they are likely to be looking for when they search for or link to particulates. I would much rather get this done right than get it done quickly, particularly since the status quo has existed for about two years, and I am not aware of any complaints about it in that time. I have some questions about possible alternatives to moving this page, first and foremost being whether the current article can be expanded or adjusted to include both airborne and waterborne particulates (aside from the much more rarely discussed space debris, these appear to be the only important mediums in which particulates are carried). However, I have found some sources which distinguish these, only labeling airborne particles as particulates. For example:

The United States Environmental Protection Agency, on its website, defines "Particulate matter" also known as particle pollution or PM, as "a complex mixture of extremely small particles and liquid droplets. Particle pollution is made up of a number of components, including acids (such as nitrates and sulfates), organic chemicals, metals, and soil or dust particles."

Danny D. Reible, Fundamentals of Environmental Engineering (1998), p. 45: "Particulates are non-gaseous pollutants. We include in this category any substance that exists in the form of microscopic liquid or solid particles in the atmosphere. Dusts, smokes, mists, and aerosols are all different names for particulates." The same book, three pages later, has a section on "water pollutants" that does not refer to "particulates".

David E. Newton, Chemistry of the Environment (2009), p. 40: "Particulate matter is the term used to describe solid particles and liquid droplets found in the atmosphere." Later in the book, water pollution also does not refer to "particulates".

My Google Books search returns about 40,000 hits for "particulates", and 1,220 hits for the specific phrase "particulates in water". I would consider this a lack of evidence of anything other than air pollution being commonly referred to as Particulates, although I also think that a more appropriate title given the sources would be Particulate matter.

I also looked at page hits. If readers are arriving at this page but intending to find something else, they might follow the hatlink to the disambiguation page. In the last 90 days, however, Particulates has been viewed nearly 48,000 times, while the disambiguation page has been viewed 178 times, of which about one third happened in the few hours after this page was initially moved to a different title. In the same period, Total suspended solids was viewed about 15,000 times, but again there is little evidence that this term is considered synonymous with "particulates", and no evidence that editors are reaching that page after having searched for "particulates", and then gone through the disambiguation page.

Lastly, there is the question of ambiguity itself. I recently de-disambiguated Particulate pollution, and noted there that the EPA describes how the same particles can pass back and forth between water and air, being carried in the air and deposited in the water, and then returning to the air to form acid rain and the like. I wonder, do we need a separate page on particulate pollution at all if it is asserted that all particulates are polluting? Some of the literature (e.g. Newton, above) suggests that there can be natural particulates such as dust, smoke from forest fires, and airborne biogenics, but this is a distinction that can be covered in an article, just as Newton has succinctly covered it in his book chapter. Based on all of the foregoing, I propose that the optimal solution is to move the current title to Particulate matter, and move the current particulate pollution article to this title with some added material indicating that both natural and artificial particulates exist, with the latter constituting pollution. bd2412 T 19:14, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't really like any of these options. I agree from when I tried to do some disambiguation on links to Particulate (disambiguation) ages ago, that most (but not all) of the links meant aerosol pollution in Earth's atmosphere. Some meant naturally formed aerosols in Earth's atmosphere. A secondary usage was particles suspended in water. The problem of ambiguity is due to the way people abuse this term. How about this: rename this page as per your suggestion to particulate matter. Redirect particulates, particulate, particulate pollution, atmospheric particulate matter to particulate matter. Add a hat note along the lines of This article is about particles suspended in the atmosphere. For particulate matter suspended in water see Suspended solids. I would ignore marine debris and space debris - neither article mentions particulates or any variant thereof. I would then delete Particulate (disambiguation). This article already mentions that there are natural sources of particulate. Are there any other redirects or pages I missed?--NHSavage (talk) 20:11, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh one more thing - there is nothing in the EPA article cited by particulate pollution about particles evaporating from water. The point of the EPA article is that when particles settle on water, they can damage the water quality (or in the case of desert dust fertilize it, but that is another story). The particulate pollution is misleading to say Notably, some of the same kinds of particles can be suspended both in the air and in water, and pollutants specifically may be carried in the air and deposited in the water, or carried by water and transferred to the air through evaporation. If aerosols are water soluble, then when deposited to water, they will dissolve. If they are insoluble, then they will generally not evaporate again. There are two main sources of particulates from water bodies that I can think of sea salt generated mechanically, but there is such a large resevoir of salt that the re-deposition of sea salt in the oceans is a bit beside the point, and dimethyl sulfide which is produced by plankton and can then be oxidised to give sulfate aerosol. In neither case does a particle cycle back and forth as that article suggests. If I wasn't proposing its deletion, I'd want to change that statement.--NHSavage (talk) 20:30, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh I missed Colloidal particle - I would just redirect this to Colloid.--NHSavage (talk) 20:36, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I support this alternative solution. With respect to evaporation, I was thinking of the reference to acid rain, since rain forms from evaporation. In retrospect, though , rain can obviously incorporate atmospheric pollutants. bd2412 T 21:18, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

• ngrams for particles in water,particles in air,particles suspended,particulates in water,particulates in air,particulates in atmosphere,particulates suspended, apart from crossing into original research, suggests that "particulate" is a new word, as ambiguous as particle, and not predominantly associated with the atmosphere as the current title implies. The article is very focused on the atmosphere, not at all on muddy water, and so it needs a more precise title. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:01, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
  • There is a serious flaw in your approach there. Ngrams searches for exact phrases, but people would generally use a definite article and say "particulates in the atmosphere" rather than "particulates in atmosphere" (and, as it turns out, "particulates in the air" also). Here is the Ngram with the definite article added to atmosphere; and since the use of "particle" is not relevant to the meaning of particulate, here is your Ngram with only the "particulate" phrases included, and with versions including the definite articles added for water, air, and atmosphere. Here you can see that the phrase "particulates in the air" by itself occurs more than all other uses combined. Not only that, the next highest usage is for "particulates in the atmosphere", which is essentially an identical meaning to "in the air". Put that together, and here is the combined result for all the air or atmosphere references compared to the combined result for water references, which shows approximately 85% of results referring to air or atmosphere particulates. However, if you want to see something really interesting, add the phrase "atmospheric particulates" to the same mix, and it turns out to have even more hits than all the other air and atmosphere references combined, so that adding "atmospheric particulates" yields a set where the complete set of air and atmosphere hits add up to more than ten times the complete set of combined water hits. bd2412 T 01:14, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
    • Your use of the extreme smoothing parameter of 50 dramatically alters (distorts) the results. With a more reasonable value (default is 3), you can see that there was a sudden burst of use of "particulate" related to atmosphere in the 1970s, and the residual use has been in exponential decline since. The use of "particulate" related to water also suddenly increased, but not nearly so strongly, declined a little, has has remained fairly constant subsequently.

A smoothing of 50 misleadingly, falsely, suggests a strong ongoing trend. It doesn't allow the graph to reflect the increase followed by decrease.

Prior to the 1970s, there was little discussion of particles in the atmosphere, "particulate" was barely used at all, water particulates was a mature field, and written discourse on atmospheric pollution was yet to explode. So yes, since 1980, particulate is associated with air more often than water, but it is not 10-tenfold in recent years, and the ratio is in decline. Particulate continues to be used in terms of water solids, and remains very important, even if there is less ongoing need for new books to be written about it. This article needs a more precise title. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:47, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Smoothing the results avoids a slavish adherence to microtrends. Our readers may just as well be reading books from the 1970s or 1980s when they come upon the term they wish to search as books from today. However, even using a smoothing of 1, it is clear that air and atmospheric references continue to outnumber water references several times over, far more than the "all the other topics combined" threshold by which we determine the primary topic of a term. bd2412 T 02:06, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, agreed that ngram evidence indicates that atmospheric usage outnumbers water usage several times. That's a worthy point, but I think it is diminished because atmospheric references are amplified by the recentism of interest in atmospheric pollution, even to the point of tabloid sensationalism, while water pollution because a boring known science decades ago. I suggest that this bias is influenced by wealthy book writers having easy access to clean water, but breathing the common air, and that such biases should be resisted. "Particulate" does not necessarily imply "atmospheric particulate".

Above, you support an alternative solution with NHSavage. Can that alternative solution be clarified please? --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:52, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

I have only ever seen recentism raised as an issue in disambiguation discussions where one term was much, much older than the other. Here, it seems that "particulates" has referred to those in both air and water for about the same amount of time, and that reference to those in the atmosphere has predominated not just for a the past few years but consistently over decades. The alternative solution proposed by NHSavage is to move this page to Particulate matter; then redirect particulate, particulates, particulate pollution, and atmospheric particulate matter to Particulate matter; and then put a hatnote on that page pointing to suspensions in water. bd2412 T 12:48, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

• Relisting comment. Would like some of the people who voted in support earlier to give their opinion on the alternative option that seems to be supported by BD2412 and NHSavage. Pinging G. C. Hood, Titoxd and SmokeyJoe. Jenks24 (talk) 07:51, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I continue to support the move, usage statistics notwithstanding because introductory usage of particulate matter seems to always be in the context of the atmosphere, and/or to have followed use of the word "aerosol". As a Wikipedia article title, neither is true. "Atmospheric" is required because the particulates covered by this article are limited to particulates in the atmosphere, and many important particulates do not pertain to the atmosphere. Definitely support "Atmospheric particulate matter" over the current. Atmospheric particulates may be superior, because "particulate" implies matter, there are no immaterial particulates in the atmosphere. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:21, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

After googling these terms, and reading what returns, I think Atmospheric particulates is far superior a title to Particulate matter. The first is overwhelmingly more frequently used in an introductory sense in scholarly sources. the contrast with google ngram tells me that google ngram is not to be relied upon for titling decisions. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:27, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Since you have done the research, would you agree at this point that most references to "particulates" intend atmospheric particulates? If the only other significant form of particulate is water-borne particulates, we can resolve all of this with a redirect and a hatnote. bd2412 T 13:46, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

That "most references to "particulates" intend atmospheric particulates?". No, I would not agree to that wording. Instead, I would say "most recurring usage of the word "particulates" is in reference to atmospheric particulates". Once the context of the atmosphere is established, "particulates" can only refer to atmospheric particulates. However, at the level of the title, the context of the atmosphere is not established.

"Significant" is a troublesome word, having different meanings opposite to each other. Discussion of atmospheric particulates dominates 5-10 fold. The overwhelming count of the remainder relates to particulates in water. Use of particulate elsewhere, such as low orbit space, cosmology (where it seems to mean undefinded particles, not elemental or plasma) and materials (a particulate solid is composed of finer parts than a conglomerate), are all important but not frequent. But none of this line of thinking goes to the question of how a stand-alone document, such as a Wikipedia article, should be titled. Without "Atmospheric (or similar), the title does not precisely define the scope of the article. A hatnote is not sufficient to correct a title that ignores other important uses of the word. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:21, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree that Atmospheric particulates is far better than both Atmospheric particulate matter and Particulate matter. The word "particulate" already implies "matter" (what else could it be in this context?), so that latter is just a redundant term.

Also, I am strongly against assuming that all "particulates" are in the atmosphere; presence of them in water (e.g. finely-divided plastic particles) and in other contexts is increasingly under study (e.g. soil contamination, biomass and seafood contamination). Conflating all "particulates" with "atmospheric particulates" is only going to result in more confused writing, confused readers, and time-wasting disputes over the coming years. Let's resolve this clearly now, and resume working on improving the content. Reify-tech (talk) 15:45, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

What, then, do we do about the WP:DABCONCEPT problem? There may be different kinds of particulates, but that makes them related subtopics, not ambiguous terms. bd2412 T 16:21, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

It's not so much a group of related topics, as a group of topics with one common intrinsic physical characteristic, connected by use of a common word. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:21, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

It is the "common intrinsic physical characteristic" that makes them related. They are all only called "particulates" because they share the characteristic of the particulate form. This is what makes it a WP:DABCONCEPT, because it is possible to explain that relationship. Perhaps a set index is in order, although I think a primary topic would be more informative to the average reader. bd2412 T 20:33, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

"It is the "common intrinsic physical characteristic" that makes them related." Yes. This could be well explained in a DABCONCEPT page at "particulate", or "particulate matter" (the first is an adjective, "particulates" is informal). Particulates are usually grains, dust, solid/liquid mixtures, larger and more complicated that particles, which include atoms, electrons, oxygen molecules. Is a water droplet a particulate?

"They are all only called "particulates" because they share the characteristic of the particulate form." No. "Particulate" is a persisting 1960s neologism coined and used to distinguish particulates from particles, used for convenience, not used in a serious treatment of the particulates themselves. When soot is called a particulate, it is not in a study of the structure of soot. (I wish I had handy access to the oed, by far the best source for this stuff) There is usage of the word 100 years preceding, but I believe that this was usage as adjective for the composition of materials, between pure and conglomerate, as in "concrete is a particulate material", "steel is not a particulate material". --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:32, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

If you have sources for this, then you have the basis for an article explaining what particulates (as an informal designation) are. We do have articles discussing the use of amorphously described concepts. They are difficult to write, but are particularly useful for readers like me, who would otherwise generally be under the impression that these concepts were well defines and cleanly delineated. There is, apparently, a history of use here that goes beyond mere etymology. bd2412 T 00:40, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Related moves

• A merger of Particulate and Particulate (disambiguation) is being discussed at Talk:Particulate (disambiguation). G. C. Hood (talk) 18:44, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
• At 15:17, 13 August 2014 (UTC) the move proposal Particulate (disambiguation) → Particulate was withdrawn by its nominator. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:18, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mammoth captions

This article has some monster captions that far outweigh the graphics they are attached to. The massive text blocks in small print are nearly indigestible to non-specialist readers. It would be better to explain the pictures in ordinary text, with headings, paragraph breaks, references, and other readability accommodations for non-obsessive readers. The caption should concisely summarize what the picture shows, and refer to a nearby text explaining all the details for a reader wishing to delve into them. As it stands now, it is difficult to even discern what the pictures are supposed to show. Reify-tech (talk) 19:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I have reformatted those captions to make them more legible. I have extracted some matter from them into a new section Particulates#Size distribution of particulates. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:34, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for trimming the captions and moving much of the explanation details to the main text. It is now noticeably easier to figure out what the images are showing. As a further improvement, I suggest that the image sourcing details be moved to the end of the captions, or still better, into the main text. Concerned readers can always find full details about any Wikipedia image's sourcing, with a couple of clicks. The general reader needs to see quickly what an image is about; questions about sourcing and methodologies only emerge later, after the reader is drawn into the meaning of the image. Reify-tech (talk) 16:10, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Lead sentence and grammar

The lead sentence is currently:

"Atmospheric particulate matter – also known as particulate matter (PM) or particulates – are particles of solid or liquid matter suspended in the Earth's atmosphere as atmospheric aerosol, a term which refers to the particulate/air mixture, as opposed to the particulate matter alone."

Please can we amend it to something grammatical: at present it's saying "Atmospheric particulate matter are particles...", when you remove the parenthesis: a singular subject with a plural verb.

As the article title is "Particulates" I suggest:

(Option 1) Particulates – also known as atmospheric particulate matter or particulate matter (PM) – are particles of solid or liquid matter ... "

Or, if there's consensus for keeping the order of the terms as is, then:

(Option 2)  :"Atmospheric particulate matter – also known as particulate matter (PM) or particulates – comprises particles of solid or liquid matter ... "

Or, for those who prefer simple language:

(Option 3)  :"Atmospheric particulate matter – also known as particulate matter (PM) or particulates – is particles of solid or liquid matter ... "

or (4)"consists of", (5)"is made up of", various other terms - anything to ensure that we have a leade sentence which doesn't jar the reader by having a disagreement in number between the subject and the verb. PamD 08:02, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

PM10 etc.

Hi all,

Not new to particulates or aerosols, but new to contribution, but would like to contribute to these pages.

Can I tell you about my pet hate:

PM10 & PM2.5 which are always described incorrectly as particles less than 10 and 2.5 micrometers when in fact they have a mean diameter of 10 and 2.5 microns (must find the symbol for this!) respectively. This problem or information is so well ingrained within literature and even scientific journals & books, that it is hard to find a reference, but I know that it is probably within Hinds, I just don't have that book to hand. As this is part of my role at work, where I measure aerosols and calibrate the samplers that measure these particles I have researched this, so will come back to edit when I have found the relevant pages.

Chat to me about your thoughts people

Dave — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoistrm (talk • contribs) 11:45, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi Dave, Please go ahead and define PM10 and PM2.5 in the main article. I came to this page when searching the definition of PM10, but it is not in the main page. Jan Vlug (talk) 19:45, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

"Expert position paper on air pollution and cardiovascular disease" with focus on particulates - PMID 25492627

"Particles are often classified into three major size groups (Figure 1): coarse particles (diameter <10 and ≥2.5 μm), fine particles (diameter <2.5 and ≥0.1 μm), and ultrafine particles (<0.1 μm)."

Expert position paper on air pollution and cardiovascular disease

David E. Newby, Pier M. Mannucci, Grethe S. Tell, Andrea A. Baccarelli, Robert D. Brook, Ken Donaldson, Francesco Forastiere, Massimo Franchini, Oscar H. Franco, Ian Graham, Gerard Hoek, Barbara Hoffmann, Marc F. Hoylaerts, Nino Künzli, Nicholas Mills, Juha Pekkanen, Annette Peters, Massimo F. Piepoli, Sanjay Rajagopalan, Robert F. Storey. Expert position paper on air pollution and cardiovascular disease. European Heart Journal, December 2014 DOI: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehu458

Full final text, free: http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/2/83.long

PMID 25492627

http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/2/83.full-text.pdf

http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/2/83

CONTENTS:

Article

Introduction

The main air pollutants

Air pollution and mortality

Air pollution and cardiovascular disease

Coronary artery disease

Heart failure

Cardiac arrhythmias and arrest

Cerebrovascular disease

Venous thromboembolism

Biological mechanisms

Atherosclerosis

Inflammation

Thrombosis

Systemic vascular dysfunction

Mechanisms of heart failure

Epigenetic changes

Interaction with traditional risk factors

Air quality recommendations

Societal and personal advice

Conclusions and future research directions

Acknowledgements

References

Figures & data

Information

Explore

PDF

Use of ordinals in Size distribution of particulates section

In Particulates#Size distribution of particulates there are a couple references to graphics by the order they appear in ("the third image" and "the seventh image"). Suggest that a better approach be found that isn't susceptible to becoming wrong the instant someone adds a graphic or reorders content and which doesn't require a reader to go back to the top and count images to figure what is being referred to. —Salton Finneger (talk) 13:46, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Solar geoengineering activity is a source of air pollution/fine particulate matter (PM2.5)

The chemical clumping behavior of particles released in the troposphere by solar geoengineering activity is consistent with the definition of a highly dispersed condensation aerosol. Tkadm30 (talk) 12:03, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

assorted (mostly minor) problems

They have impacts on climate and precipitation that? adversely affect human health - many of the adverse health effects are unrelated to climate or precipitation; recommend changing to: and adversely affect

Particulates are the deadliest form of air pollution due to their ability to penetrate deep into the lungs... - most forms of air pollution have this ability so it is not what makes particulates deadliest

Sources - ...vegetation and sea spray - there are other sources so recommend: vegetation, sea spray, etc.

Composition - sea salt is considered the second-largest contributor in the global aerosol budget - the previous section stated that salt spray over the oceans is the overwhelmingly most common form of particulate in the atmosphere

drift/mist emissions from the wet cooling towers is also source of particulate matter as they are widely used - recommend: drift/mist emissions from wet cooling towers are also a significant source of particulate matter as they are widely used

Size distribution - As shown in the seventh image on this page - it's the 5th image

Deposition - Any info regarding DPM and the atmosphere... - recommend deleting this sentence; it is unrelated to deposition

Controlling technologies - The now charged air then passes through large electrostatic plates which attract the charged particle - particles

Indirect effect - The Indirect aerosol effect - Indirect should be lower case

known as the Cloud albedo effect - Cloud should be lower case

Semi-direct effect - The Semi-direct effect - Semi should be lower case

The effects described here all lead to a reduction in cloud cover i.e. an increase in planetary albedo - wouldn't that cause a decrease (clouds reflect more than land or ocean)?

The semi-direct effect classified as a climate feedback) by - recommend: is classified as a climate feedback by Sulfate aerosol - cloud properties -albedo and lifetime-) - delete )

Black carbon - permeating an EC buckyball - permeating isn't the right word; inside? (and recommend fullerene instead of buckyball)

with "total direct forcing - recommend: while "total direct forcing

Health effects - but particulate matter smaller than about 10 micrometers, can settle - delete ,

when asthmatics are exposed - capitalize When

Similarly, so called fine PM, (often referred to as PM2.5), - either delete the ,s or the ()

the different degrees of relative penetration of a PM particle into the cardiovascular system - respiratory system

and hence the circulatory system are termed respirable particles - add , after system

The site and extent of absorption of inhaled gases and vapors - delete this section; gases and vapors are not particulates

than rounder shapes, which in turn affects - delete in turn

Health problems - The effects of inhaling particulate matter that has - have contributed to ~370,000 premature deaths in Europe during 2005. - there should be a , before contributed & the . after 2005 should be a ,

A 2014 meta analysis - shouldn't that be meta-analysis?

An increase in estimated annual exposure to PM 2.5 - delete space & make 2.5 a subscript

and colonisation of both Staphylococcus aureus and Streptococcus pneumoniae was altered by Black Carbon exposure - colonization, were altered, & black carbon shouldn't be capitalized

between 2.5 and 10 micrometers in diameter. was published 2008 - delete stray . & that should presumably be was published in 2008

which means the effect is due to the subsection - recommend: which means the effect may be due to the subclass

Bangkok Thailand - add , after Bangkok

from cardiovascular disease, and 1.0% risk of all disease for every 10 micrograms - either delete the , or add another , after all disease

The Mongolian government agency recorded a 45% increase in the rate of respiratory illness in the past five years (reported in September 2014) - what agency?, previous five years, and without information on changes in particulate levels this is meaningless anyway

A study In 2000 - in should not be capitalized

were primarily due fine particulate matter - due to fine particulate matter

Regulation - Particulates are the deadliest - see comment at start

California - is waiting for the upcoming 22 January 2010 deadline - not upcoming

members of the nanometal oxides, - metal oxide nanoparticles?;

Colorado - what Colorado Plan?

Ulaanbaatar - annual average mean temperature - mean means average so this is redundant

very high concentrations of airborne particles and particulate matter - also redundant

References - 26. - add , after Plants 96.88.198.77 (talk) 06:25, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Change main title: Particulates

Hello friends. Somehow the adjective "particulate" as in "particulate matter" morphed into a noun meaning little particle. I would recommend a change from "Particulates" to "Particles". Soccer59 (talk) 00:09, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Change main title: Particulates

Hello Friends, I advocate a change in main title. "Particulate" is an adjective, for example "particulate matter". Somehow through common misusage that adjective became treated as a noun. But what is the difference between a particulate and a particle? The intro gives several synonyms

Atmospheric aerosol particles – also known as atmospheric particulate matter, particulate matter (PM), particulates, or suspended particulate matter (SPM) – are microscopic solid or liquid matter suspended in the atmosphere of Earth.

I can understand the desire to lead the main title with the noun (particle) rather than with the pair of adjectives Atmospheric aerosol

So why not Particles (atmospheric aerosol)

I might point out that there atmospheric aerosols are a subset of colloidal suspensions, which set also includes suspensions of particles in liquids. Hence the need to specify atmospheric aerosol.

Also there are aerosols other than atmospheric aerosols (for example in laboratory studies in which the carrier gas is other than air). Hence the need to qualify "Particles" by both "atmospheric" and "aerosol".

One should not make such a change unilaterally. Hence I invite discussion.

Soccer59 (talk) 15:01, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Diagram

"Tabacco" typo: should be Tobacco. Can this be fixed? Koro Neil (talk) 23:54, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Display VSON WP6910 (air detector) - pm2,5 at Verona (Borgo Milano) Italy - (particulate pollution, polveri sottili) - 2020 01 15 (hour 22.35) OUTdoor & INdoor (HEPA H13) - first publication commons.wikimedia.org.webm
• Display VSON WP6910 (air detector) -Location 45.44234 10.96862 Verona (Borgo Milano) Italy, strong burnt smell -pm2,5 OUTdoor particulate pollution, polveri sottili, smog (smoke heating systems???) -2020 04 02 (hour20 15).webm

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:11, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Interpunct inconsistency

European countries revealed that there was no safe level of particulates and that for every increase of 10 μg/m3 in PM10, the lung cancer rate rose 22% [95% CI 1·03–1·45]. The smaller PM2.5 were particularly deadly, with an 18% increase in lung cancer per 5 μg/m3 ([CI 95% 0·96–1·46]) as it can penetrate deeper into the lungs.

I'm going to edit this into consistency, and change the interpunct into regular dots, because it seems to me this can only interfere with assistive technologys such as text to speech.

I found a mention of interpunct in MOS:COMMONMATH, but it didn't resolve this case, so I'll go with my spidey sense, instead. Revert at will if you think I've got it wrong. — MaxEnt 02:34, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Please check interlinkages with aerosol

I see that several people have improved this article in recent times. Could you please take a look also at the related article aerosol (a parent article?). I think the content about atmospheric aspects, climate change and so forth overlaps a bit in both articles. It's probably better covered here and might need culling/reworking at aerosol? EMsmile (talk) 09:52, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

Aerosols Cycle

Hi all. After an overview of the page, I would suggest to change a bit the structure, so we can have:

• Aerosols processes (or aerosols cycle)
  • Emissions
  • Removal
  • Transformation

Where the different processes are described, this allow us to introduce the term lifetime, and amounts like burden, budget and eventually mention the global budget of the different aerosols in the atmosphere. I don't want to introduce such kind of change, without a previous comment here in which we can discuss in the incoming days before an eventual edition of the page.AyubuZimbale (talk) 13:48, 4 November 2024 (UTC)