Talk:Partitas for keyboard (Bach)

Untitled

I deleted "orchestral suites" from being incorporated with Bach sets in six parts, as there are only 4 orchestral suites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.139.216.252 (talk) 20:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Structure of keys

Please clarify this statement: "This intention is further signalled by the spread of keys, which follows a clear structure, B-Flat - c, a - D, G - e, leaving F as the logical conclusion." What is the structure, please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnOFL (talk • contribs) 21:30, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

• I am going to remove this statement since it is unreferenced. It probably meant F is the key left since all other key letters have appeared. However, a more sound speculation would be that both works in Clavier-Ubung II (in F and in B) are continuations of the Partitas, since the Germans used CDEFGABH instead of CDEFGAB. Anyway, we don't have a source and we don't have a place for any kind of speculation in Wikipedia. Ahyangyi (talk) 05:27, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

As I understand it, the structure is, starting on B-flat: up a note (B-flat to C), down a note (B-flat to A), up a second note (B-flat to D), down a second note (B-flat to G), up a third note (B-flat to E). If you look at the table below, Partitas 1, 2, 4, 6 have stepwise motion upwards (B-flat, c, D, e), and Partitas 1, 3, 5 have stepwise motion downwards (B-flat, a, G). It seems to me that the natural next step after Partita 5 would be F minor, though the article said the opposite, that it would be F major, the key of the Italian Concerto. — Eru·tuon 06:53, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

e						6
D				4
c		2
B-flat	1
a			3
G					5
f							(7)

Fixed the CN tag on the "German Suites" title

I've found a fairly decent citation for this. I take no credit for this, it was very easy to find. I'm surprised that whoever originally slapped the CN tag in there didn't just go find it. It shows something that is my pet peeve about CN tags: very often they seem to be nothing but sheer laziness.

Poihths (talk) 01:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Names of movements

As far as I can make out, the more commonly accepted names (and languages, in a mixture of French, Italian, Latin, and German) of the movements are, with differences from the current article bolded:

• BWV 825: Praeludium; Allemande; Corrente; Sarabande; Menuet I; Menuet II; Giga
• BWV 826: Sinfonia; Allemande; Courante; Sarabande; Rondeaux; Capriccio
• BWV 827: Fantasia; Allemande; Corrente; Sarabande; Burlesca; Scherzo; Gigue
• BWV 828: Ouvertüre; Allemande; Courante; Aria; Sarabande; Menuet; Gigue
• BWV 829: Praeambulum; Allemande; Corrente; Sarabande; Tempo di Minuetto; Passepied; Gigue
• BWV 830: Toccata; Allemanda; Corrente; Air; Sarabande; Tempo di Gavotta; Gigue

I'm not going to get in trouble by changing/correcting anything until I get some feedback here first. The image of BWV 825 clearly shows, and says, Praeludium rather than "Prelude". "Ouverture" needs an umlaut over the last "u" - the name is in German, not French. "Preambulum" is just spelled wrong. (And I hope I've caught all my own typos.)
I'm finding this specific set of names at http://imslp.org/wiki/6_Partitas,_BWV_825-830_(Bach,_Johann_Sebastian), Nos. 1-3 (EU) #83649: Ed. Richard Douglas Jones, Bärenreiter BA 5152; but they agree with what I have found on recordings. Milkunderwood (talk) 09:06, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

About 5 weeks later with no response or comment, I've been bold and made these changes. Milkunderwood (talk) 23:21, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

According to Henle Urtext (HN 28), a very reliable publisher, the movements are:

• PARTITA 1: Praeludium, Allemande, Corrente, Sarabande, Menuet I, Menuet II, Gigue.
• PARTITA 2: Sinfonia, Allemande, Courante, Sarabande, Rondeaux, Capriccio.
• PARTITA 3: Fantasia, Allemande, Corrente, Sarabande, Burlesca,, Scherzo, Gigue.
• PARTITA 4: Ouverture, Allemande, Courante, Aria, Sarabande, Menuet, Gigue.
• PARTITA 5: Praeambulum, Alllemande, Corrente, Sarabande, Tempo di Minuetta, Passepied, Gigue.
• PARTITA 6: Toccata, Allemande, Corrente, Air, Sarabande, Tempo di Gavotta, Gigue.

All spellings copied letter-for-letter from the book. I'm not sure the reason for the alternative spellings of Corrente / Courante. George8211 (talk) 19:26, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for this - interesting. I have no idea whether your Henle or IMSLP's 1976 Bärenreiter (R. D. Jones) may be considered the more authoritative. The Corrente vs Courante distinction is easy: it just depends on whether the title is given in Italian or French; and it would take major scholarship to puzzle out why Bach chose his names in different languages. The same in 825, Giga vs Gigue; 828, Ouvertüre (German) vs Ouverture (French); and 830, Allemanda vs Allemande. I wish you would double-check the 829 "Minuetta" spelling though - I'm not good in any of these languages, but this looks wrong to me. (Did I catch all the differences?) Milkunderwood (talk) 19:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Looking at these again, my gut impulse would be to accept the Jones language forms, simply because they are more unusual. You very rarely see Giga; and Allemanda is much less commonly used than Allemande. The same would be true of the German spelling of the French Ouverture. Milkunderwood (talk) 19:34, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Minuetto is masculine in Italian, so "Minuetta" is obviously wrong. Milkunderwood (talk) 03:39, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't know much about these Partitas or languages. I'll try to do more research on this. George8211 (talk) 18:40, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Notable Recordings

Just listening to Piotr Anderszewski gracefully playing the German partitas on -- what sounds like -- a large grand piano. Would someone like to add a few notes about the academic discussion that rages about Bach who wrote for a harpsichord being played on a modern piano that didn't exist in his time? At least, when played on a guitar, the performance is recognized as an "arrangement" of Bach's original harpsichord composition. When played on a piano, the performance manages to avoid the subject.

75.110.98.103 (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2016 (UTC)