Talk:Pat's King of Steaks/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Traditional Cheez Whiz???
As much as the owners of Pat's and Geno's would like everyone to think that a Philadelphia cheese steak is suppose to use Cheez Whiz (because that's what they've been using in recent years), 99.99999% of all other Philly steak shops typically use American cheese. If you simply walk into a local neighborhood shop and say, "yo, one cheese steak", the owner assumes American unless you specify otherwise. I've never had the pleasure of eating a cheese steak outside of Philly, so I don't know what is done in other parts of the country, but I've had cheese steaks all over Philly, and its only at Pat's and Geno's where that nasty Cheez Whiz stuff is the rule. How long has Cheez Whiz been around, anyway? 10 or 15 years? Pat's has been making steak sandwhiches since 1930, and they've come with cheese since at least the 1960s. There is nothing "traditional" about Cheez Whiz. func(talk) 00:14, 20 October 2004 (UTC)
I, an outsider, was suprised that my Pat's cheese steak contained the aforementioned liquid hydrogenated death. But more importantly, this Kerry thing reeks of proximity. That is, it's temporal proximity is it's sole merit besides the facts that it involves cheese steaks, and that Kerry is, in general, an important person. All references to Kerry ought to be removed, as, if the page detailed every instance of a person eating a cheese steak, or even every instance of a person making a cheese steak faux pas, it would be utterly useless, not to mention long. - Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.97.172 (talk) 02:59, 23 November 2004 (UTC)
Official name
The official name of Pat's is "Pat's King of Steaks" not "Pat's Steaks." Although it may be informally referred to as the ladder, all of the restaurant's signage and references on its website read "Pat's King of Steaks." With that being said, I will be changing the article's title from Pat's Steaks from Pat's King of Steaks. Preceding unsigned comment added by Dream out loud (User talk:Dream out loud) 18:09, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Other Partners?
I recently removed a statement from the South Philadelphia article refencing Pat's Steaks, stating:
It is stated in the Milano family folklore that Salvatore Milano, born in Pietraperzia, Enna, Sicily, who lived 806 Federal Street, was to go into partnership with Pat in opening his steak sandwich shop back in the early 1930's. However, at the last minute, Milano pulled out at to open his own shop, near to 6th & Catherine, or thereabouts. While Salvatore Milano's shop failed, Pat's went on to become famous as being "King of the Steaks".
As written, it obviously needs citation, but I was surprised to find no reference to it in this artlce. Should it be incorporated? Can anyone substaniate the claim?Joe JJC 15:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
The First to Use Cheese?
This article says that Geno's claims to have been the first to use cheese, opening in 1966. But also says Pat's has been using Cheese Wiz since 1952? If that's true, then that totally contadict's Geno's claim. This is contradictory and confusing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.238.178.226 (talk) 20:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC).
Ordering
Steak orders are often given as simple commands, an ordering method the establishment prefers. Typical orders consist of two or three words per steak. This is a little unencyclopedic. Is this tradition? A requirement? Are orders filled for people that don't follow it? -Rolypolyman 22:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Cheese contradict
Currently, the article has Geno's using Cheese Wiz before cheese was added to steak sandwiches. SummerPhD 19:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Sources
Prior to my edits, there were two "sources" listed: imdb and "The New York Times, 1985, op. cit."
imdb.com is essentially a wiki and, therefore, not a [[wp:rs|reliable source]. I have removed it.
The second cite is meaningless. "op. cit." means "refer to the earlier citation of this source". This leaves us with New York Times, 1985; certainly not verifiable. My guess is the citation was copied from some other source that was citing it. I've removed it.
The article is now unsourced. SummerPhD 19:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Family feud
Edits I have just reverted took events out of sequence. Per the cited source: "The family line divided when Pat and his son, Herbert, (Rick's father) moved to expand and created franchises of Pat's King of Steaks. Ultimately, Pat became more interested in real estate and working as a boxing promoter, and Herbert became a lawyer and active in Republican politics.
About 25 years ago, the Olivieris closed the franchises and divided the family business. Harry and his son Frank Sr. (Frank's father) got the original business in South Philly. Herbert opened in Reading Terminal Market in a business originally named Olivieri's Prince of Steaks, a play on the fact that he was King Pat's son."
Source says: 1) Herbert expands/franchises 2) close franchises AND divide business; Harry/Frank original location, Herbert in RTM with name playing on connection
BudMann9's version [1]: 1) divide business; Harry/Frank original location, Herbert expands/franchises ("most of which are now closed") 2) "Additionally" Herbert opens in RTM in 1981, no mention of name play ("King"/"Prince")
I have reverted to match the cited source. SummerPhD 12:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Unencyclopedic
ResolvedVarious sections include the sodas they carry, their current prices and other details that have no place in anything remotely encyclopedic. SummerPhD 19:38, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Advert
ResolvedA "brief scene" probably doesn't merit mention. Certainly not to note that a plaque "proudly" marks the spot.
The poorly written, unsourced claimed mentions in Fresh Prince serve to document the claim that Pat's has the "best cheesesteaks in Philadelphia." Fresh Prince takes place in California.
Makes the claim that Pat's was "featured" in Sandwiches You Will Like. Actually, cheesesteaks were featured. Pat's was mentioned, along with Geno's and Dalessandro's. SummerPhD 19:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Peacock
ResolvedMuch of the article gives suspiciously "helpful" details (current prices, how to order "properly", what sodas are carried, there is no indoor seating, cheeses offered at Pat's, etc.) that are completely out of place for wikipedia, but appropriate for Pat's website.
"Unless a large order was placed, the cook or a third person working the main window usually provides the steak within seconds, a notable feature of Pat's when compared to its cross-city rivals."
"a healthy dollop of Cheez Whiz"
"Plastic forks are provided."
"One notable beverage selection is a unique and popular "Cherry" soft drink" Unique?!?!?! Yeah: unique to hundreds of pizza and hoagie shops throughout the city.
"different than Pepsi Wild Cherry (also available)."
"(taking over a spot Geno's Steaks abandoned after two seasons)." (Their rival "abandoned" it?)
"Pat's has the best cheesesteaks in Philadelphia"
"Featured on the PBS special Sandwiches That You Will Like."
Maybe I should be using the "advert" tag instead. SummerPhD 19:57, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Cheesesteak inventor
I have just removed an unsourced claim that Philly lore suggests cross street rival Geno's may have invented the cheesesteak. I can find no support for this whatsoever. The Philly cheesesteak article has a sourced claim for Pat's. Pat's King of Steaks has a sourced claim for Pat's. Geno's Steaks was founded in 1966, and its article has no claim, sourced or otherwise, regarding the creation, other than a note that "...directly across the street from rival Pat's King of Steaks, which claims to have invented the steak sandwich in 1930." SummerPhD 12:28, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Ordering Order
Resolved
The order in which patrons specify the items to be included on their steak is incorrect as written. The first portion of the order is the type of cheese desired (e.g., "Whiz"), the second whether onions are to be added (e.g., "Wit") or not ("Witout").
Taken care of! Bill (talk) 16:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
Cheese contradict
"Long-time competitor Geno's Steaks claimed they were the first to add cheese to the recipe, though Harry's son, Frank, claims he first added Cheese Whiz in the 1960's." Pat's King of Steaks
"In 1952 Pat's added Cheez Whiz to their sandwich ingredients." Cheesesteak SummerPhD 21:48, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
- Still haven't found proper sourcing for any of this, though unreliable sources all have Pat's adding Whiz in the 1950s. Whiz was introduced in 1952[2], which seems to be the reasoning someone used for 1952 in Cheesesteak. For now, I have both reading 1950s. - SummerPhD (talk) 20:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
- I've removed the unsourced portion of the claim. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Disputed
"1,500 daily" = 10,500/week
"10 tons" beef/week (20,000 pounds)
So the average steak uses close to 2 pounds of beef? I don't believe this for a moment. The source is a broken link, so I can't really check it. Either we're misquoting it or someone was blowing smoke. Until we can verify this, I'm yanking it. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
Chopping and slicing; Pat's and Geno's
REman001 has twice changed the statement "Pat's chops up its meat, but Geno's does not", reversing the names and saying "Pat's always slices its meat--- Geno' chops it".[3] I've just noticed that the source does not make the distinction.
BOTH shops use sliced beef. While cooking, Pat's chops the slices up. Geno's does not. The source cited does not state this (though we can verify it by looking at photos on both shops' websites, the photos in both articles or looking through the window while walking past for a slice of pizza or for some shopping on south 9th). As such, this would be original research.
It's not a matter of it not being true, it's a matter of emphasis. While I have my preference (chopped vs. not), I also have preferences for lots of details that don't matter to many other people. Much as we wouldn't add comparisons of two films based on what I feel is a significant difference between the two, we shouldn't be doing it here.
If anyone cares enough to find an independent reliable source for the chopped vs. not chopped question, have at it. Otherwise, it's gone (I've removed it). - SummerPhDv2.0 19:50, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
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