Talk:Pato O'Ward/Archive 1

Archive 1

Namespace

@JoeyofthePriuses: Do not move this page to Pato O'Ward based on your implications and gain WP:CONSENSUS here. We use the mostly used name per WP:COMMONNAME and a simple Google search clearly shows that "Patricio O'Ward" is the common name for this person. – Sabbatino (talk) 14:52, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME does NOT imply we use the "most common name", instead it says we should use the most recognisable name (which is generally but not always the same thing). Looking at more recent things, he is certainly trying to become known as Pato, for example the team website [1], his personal websites/social media [2][3] and Indycar website [4]. Notice however the urls however still have Particio, not Pato. Some news sites have also started referring to him as Pato but they are still in the great minority. I think after a year or so (maybe less, it's probably more dependent on when Indycar starts racing again) his preferred name will flow through and become the common name but for the time being it is still Patricio. A7V2 (talk) 21:35, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

You should not alter my words, because I wrote "the mostly used name", which is the same as "the most recognisable name", and not "the most common name". Getting back to the topic, a Google search for "Patricio O'Ward" gives 1.2 million results, while "Pato O'Ward" lists a mere 39.3 thousand results. It is clear what name should be used and as you already noted – it might be worth revisiting the case in about one year from now. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:33, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

My apologies, and I have struck my first sentence. It's not that I was altering your words, I actually misread the Article Titles article (well maybe I misread what you said a bit too, sorry!). I should have linked to WP:NAMECHANGES which is where it says for a NAME CHANGE (not in general as I previously thought) then we should give extra weight to sources published after the change. However there really aren't many, if any, sources other than himself and Indycar which have reflected the name change so that is why I don't think the article should be renamed yet, but it probably should be in future. The relative numbers of google hits isn't really relevant though as this is a name change we would need to consider mainly recent articles. A7V2 (talk) 22:32, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

@Sabbatino: Who the hell is "Pat O'Ward"??? Lmfao of course you're not going to get results for a typo'd name. Restored. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 20:58, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

@GhostOfDanGurney: I believe he only made a typo in the edit summary as when I performed the search myself I got similar results. Alternatively Sabbatino put links to google searches in his reply to my reply above. Also, given that you moved the page back citing WP:COMMON could you please explain how the name Pato as opposed to Patricio is the common name right now (as opposed to hypothetically in the future)? Thanks. A7V2 (talk) 22:56, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Your rudeness will not solve the problem. In addition, the warning that you left on my talk page is nothing more than a joke. You do know about WP:DTTR, right? Getting back to the topic, like A7V2 noted, you must explain why "Pato" is more important than "Patricio". Google search shows that "Patricio" is the correct name at this time since the driver in question started trying to be known as "Pato" just recently. – Sabbatino (talk) 07:49, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Based on the current evidence provided, I'm going to have to say that Patricio is the correct title for the time being, although if eventually he gains widespread notoriety as Pato I would not hold a prejudice towards moving it. Right now, however, that isn't the case. Willsome429 (say hey or see my edits!) 13:48, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. At least half, if not more, of the sources I found used Patricio and not Pato. This can be reviewed again in the future but for now it appears that Patricio is the most common name.
SSSB (talk) 14:25, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

I've come into this a month late, but it seems like Pato is being mostly used in the media now - there have been a lot of articles about the Indycar Iracing series lately, that's bumped up the usage of his name massively. A Google News search of "Patricio O'Ward" gives 4,700 results, but a Google News search of "Pato O'Ward" gives 17,400 results. Also, media organisations like NBC and ABC Australia, and most major motorsports-news websites like Speedcafe all use Pato. Time to review the name again? - SpringDay03 (talk) 06:49, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

[5] <- Pato [6] -<- Pato

That's the series broadcaster and the series' media partner. You kids can have your way now, but this'll get changed back real soon. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 15:03, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

The understanding I have heard, and I believe it was reiterated on Trackside with Curt Cavin and Kevin Lee, is that Patricio is his first name, but he does not like to be called that. He prefers everyone use Pato. The media (television/radio/print) has been accommodating that request. But that doesn't change that fact that Patricio is his name and for now that's what the title of the article should be. Doctorindy↔Talk 18:24, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

By this logic, we should never have moved Rinus van Kalmthout to Rinus VeeKay, since his name is van Kalmthout and he prefers everyone to call him VeeKay.... GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 20:46, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 13 June 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Lennart97 (talk) 09:50, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

---

Patricio O'Ward → Pato O'Ward – Indianapolis Star Washington Post Road & Track Detroit News ESPN motorsport.com F1i Autosport RACER

All using "Pato O'Ward". Overwhelming evidence continues to pile on to the point of snowballing that it is the WP:COMMONNAME. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 20:34, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 14:03, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nomination.--Vulp❯❯❯here! 07:25, 15 June 2021 (UTC)
• Comment - I still don't think it's as clear cut as you make it out to be. Three of the examples you give, namely Road and Track, F1i and Autosport use both Pato and Patricio in those articles, with Autosport clearly still preferring Patricio for his profile page ([7]). Motorsport.com also used Patricio in an article a day after the one you gave, with Pato only appearing in a quote [8]. They also use Patricio for his profile [9] (I never noticed before just how similar Autosport and Motorsport.com are!!). As recently as May, speedcafe used Patricio [10] but used Pato in June [11]. Auto Action also using Pato, but NBC uses Patricio. Also, O'Ward's own website continues to use Patricio, right down to the logo. All that said I remain neutral, as the argument for "Pato" is significantly stronger than last year. A7V2 (talk) 04:34, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

A search of "Pato O'Ward" gives "About 469,000 results" on Google today, while "Patricio O'Ward" gives "About 374,000 results." Here is NBC using "Pato" along with Sky Sports and Toronto Star. GhostOfDanGurney (talk) 12:31, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

• Support per nom. MainPeanut (talk) 14:52, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Irish"

The name "O'Ward" is practically a Mexican name now. The original O'Ward came to Mexico several centuries ago and the name doesn't even exist in Ireland anymore. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:24, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

MaxBrowne2 Thank you for the unsourced history lesson. I'm assuming that this is simply a cheeky way to challenge the content, so I went ahead and listened to the podcast in the cited source. At about the 44 minute mark, he does touch on it and I do believe that it's not enough to support a claim of him being "of Irish descent". But I also believe the story he gives is a noteworthy inclusion to the article. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 06:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

It's a talk page, I don't have to cite everything, I'm even allowed to do OR here. But try the Irish phone book if you need evidence that the name doesn't exist in Ireland. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 07:43, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it's a talk page, not a forum. Please be more direct with your concerns about how to improve the article. -"Ghost of Dan Gurney" 08:51, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

His connection to Ireland is tenuous at the very least, nobody would add him to the "Mexicans of Irish descent" category if he had a maternal great grandmother who happened to be Irish. It's just that he happens to have a very rare surname. The few remaining O'Wards in the world are in the US and Mexico. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 00:43, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

The notforum thing is very rigid. Sometimes article improvements can come about by forum-like discussion, throwing ideas around etc. "Brainstorming" I think they call it in the corporate world. I think my recent edits to both this article and Ward (surname) have improved the encycopedia. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:13, 6 August 2022 (UTC)