Talk:Patrick Tighe

I am attempting to update the awards section on this page but a certain user keeps deleting half the page every time I do and will not stop. I am head of business development at Tighe Architecture and am simply attempting to provide an up-to-date public record of Patrick's achievements, for some reason this user continuously deletes not only the two recent awards I am attempting to add, but also all of the pre-existing text. There is no reason for this back and forth with this self-described "deletionist", I am not marketing or adding undue weight to Patrick's work. In fact there are many awards, publications, and projects which have not been included, how is a Wikipedia biography supposed to be updated if any awards and publications are considered biased advertisements? Isn't the point of Wikipedia to be an up-to-date public record? This information is entirely accurate and sourced, there is absolutely no reason why the page continues to be deleted. Please help do something about this, thank you.

If you are editing as part of your job duties or otherwise a paid representative/employee, you must comply with the paid editing policy(this is a Terms of Use requirement and mandatory) and you should also review the conflict of interest policy. You should not edit the article directly, but you may make formal edit requests on the article talk page(this page). 331dot (talk) 19:24, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Who else is going to edit a business' web page other than an employee? So now I have to request that someone else make the edits on that page, and undo all the deletion this user has done? That's so inefficient, I'm simply updating some of the awards to be current. If that's what I have to do then please consider this that request and update the page. If you just hit "undo" on his last deletion it will revert to the updated version and undo his massive deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph Simenc (talk • contribs) 19:40, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Joseph Simenc The vast majority of the awards you attempted to add are not even cited. Wikipedia is not just a place to tell the world about someone; this is an encyclopedia that summarizes what independent reliable sources state about article subjects. If independent source significantly covered these awards, you might have something. If you just want to tell the world about the awards Mr. Tighe has earned, you should do that on a website owned and operated by him or his firm.

If you review the policies I indicate, they should clarify why you should not directly edit this article. I again stress that you must comply with the paid editing policy as soon as possible. 331dot (talk) 19:47, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

I added two awards, both cited. The remainder were pre-existing before being entirely deleted. Each award is covered by the governing body for said awards, I was under the impression that they had all been cited but again I was not the one to add those pre-existing listings to the page. The way my added awards were cited is no different than those cited by other firms and architects and refer to the correct publications. Other than the paid editing policy I see no reason why they are considered in violation of. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph Simenc (talk • contribs) 20:00, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

You only added two, but you later restored others that were removed. Please see other stuff exists; as this is a volunteer project, it is possible for inappropriate information to be in articles. Just because you see something similar in another article does not mean it can be in this one. Feel free to point out those other articles so editors can address this. 331dot (talk) 20:04, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

So no awards or publications are allowed on the page is what you're saying, because any award (which by nature is a significant independent publication, especially as it relates to the subject of the page) is inherently considered advertising? This must mean there are only specific publications that can be cited, or at least a value system assigned to publications that excludes architectural awards. That discredits the validity of Wikipedia and doesn't make sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph Simenc (talk • contribs) 20:12, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Not no awards, no. However, we'd generally be looking for awards that are extremely significant, such as those which are widely considered tremendously significant within a field (e.g., the Pulitzer prize or Fields medal), or one for which independent and reliable sources actually noted the win as particularly significant. In many industries, various bodies, publications, etc., tend to hand out awards of various types rather like candy on Halloween, and sometimes, as happened here, we see those become over three quarters of the article. That's excessive. If his work is so significant and well-regarded as to deserve that many highly notable awards, reliable sources should have discussed him in great depth and detail, and the article ought to reflect all that source material. But as it stands, it seems they're the "industry insider" type, and those aren't significant enough to go into an encyclopedia. As 331dot said, you could always put a full listing of his awards on his own or his company's website, but that's not what Wikipedia is for. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 22:45, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Aren't people interested in the industry going to be the most likely to visit the page? Assuming that is true, doesn't that make these awards of significance? The value that you assign to the awards isn't the value someone involved in the industry will assign to them, different things hold different weight for different people. People viewing the page are specifically looking for a record of what he has done, and notating the most significant awards is the best way to do that. Why can't there be a timeline of notable achievements in an encyclopedia? It sounds like you're saying one of a couple things here. Either I can't list an award unless any person will immediately recognize the award as one of extremely high prestige, I can't list awards in bulletin format and instead have to format it in an article, or I have to write more of a biographical article in order to list as many awards. The first makes no sense, that only allows for a handful of pages pertaining to any industry to list awards. The second and third also don't make any sense, that's an absurd rule that has nothing to do with the content. If all that you're saying is curate the section a little more, fine, that makes sense. It makes no sense to categorically remove all awards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joseph Simenc (talk • contribs) 23:57, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry that the answer you've received isn't the one you wanted. I'm afraid it will remain the answer, though, no matter how many times you repeat or rephrase the question. Again, if you want a site fully under the individual's control with everything you might want to include on it for industry insiders, you might consider a corporate or personal web page. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia intended for the general public, not targeted at those within a particular industry, so we do not include things like minor, intra-industry awards with little importance or significance more widely. As you've seen, that type of thing is not uncommon and we have other places to clean it up too, but we address it one article at a time. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 14:18, 19 November 2019 (UTC)